From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 11:50:17 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:50:17 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. Message-ID: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about three years ago, but hey-ho). With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully slow. So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't (in general) use more swap than RAM. Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. What gives? (Apart from "give up, get a newer PC"). From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:02:44 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:02:44 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about > three years ago, but hey-ho). > > With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap > space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there > and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully > slow. > > So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of > swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't > (in general) use more swap than RAM. > > Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything > like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. > > What gives? What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory consumption? If it's nothing, I wonder if you have a memory leak in X (try to log out and log in again and see if it impacts the memory), or your network card / wireless for example. -Andy From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 12:23:03 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:23:03 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> What gives? > > What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory > consumption? Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB it would only use 300MB of it. From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:33:49 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:33:49 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > Andy Green wrote: >> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >>> What gives? >> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory >> consumption? > > Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than > the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. > > Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to > use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses > up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB > it would only use 300MB of it. There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can leap tall buildings. -Andy From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Jul 2 12:40:27 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:40:27 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> I'm afraid that although I do not know much about 'how' virtual memory works, but I do know that it does not necessarily take just 50%. I'm currently running a process that is heavy on memory. I've got 6GB physical RAM on this machine (64bit kernel etc.), and the process itself had taken 14GB, which meant that the 10GB swap partition was almost full. Amusingly though I then quickly added another temp swap file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) In this case swap is most definitely a crutch. The previous run of this process existed solely within real memory, and it completed overnight. This one has now been running since Sunday, and appears to be running through treacle. I anticipate a trip to the cyborg leg shop. Cheers Ferg On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> Andy Green wrote: >>> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> >> >> >>>> What gives? >>> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for >>> memory >>> consumption? >> >> Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot >> better than >> the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. >> >> Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux >> appear not to >> use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. >> Now it uses >> up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap >> partition to 600MB >> it would only use 300MB of it. > > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the > behaviour > > http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ > > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. > > -Andy > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 13:37:57 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:37:57 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C9C15.3080406@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour Yes, I've fiddled with that. > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going It's curiosity as much as anything. Nothing I've read about Linux and swap has ever mentioned this behaviour. And there's nothing *wrong* with using swap - after all, however much RAM you've got, it makes sense to swap out unused cruft and free up RAM for caching files. > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. Anybody got any cheap 512MB PC-133 SODIMMs then? Nope, didn't think so. From pmpbw at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 14:31:14 2009 From: pmpbw at hotmail.com (Paul Williams) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:31:14 +0000 Subject: meeting Message-ID: Hi I see the next meeting is Sunday at 1PM. Who is going? I want to be there. Paul Williams _________________________________________________________________ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090702/3a6e8894/attachment.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 14:42:19 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:42:19 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is rebooted or you do "swapoff". there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if not faked. Paul From colinj at mx5.org.uk Fri Jul 3 14:51:04 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:51:04 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: crashdumps in swap due to temp emergency shutdowns last night :):) Colin On 3 Jul 2009, at 13:42, Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb >> swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:08:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:08:40 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox and any other heavy hitters, it drops. My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. However much RAM you've got, something comes along that will exceed it. Usually a myspace page. From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:34:52 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:34:52 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? Message-ID: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... From will.pink at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:03:02 2009 From: will.pink at gmail.com (william pink) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:03:02 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <7891dd830907030703r510768a7l16ed2c971be16caa@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > Paul M wrote: > > Ferg wrote: > >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox > and any other heavy hitters, it drops. I am afraid I agree with Paul M once my web servers start using a large amount of swap the only way of decreasing this is using swapoff -a just make you do a swapon -a after its cleared. W > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090703/dcb322fd/attachment.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 16:27:21 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:27:21 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most > of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but > just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... how big? I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. From ferg at scotgate.org Fri Jul 3 16:33:31 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:33:31 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. Cheers Ferg On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 16:42:11 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:11 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most >> of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... > > how big? > > I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. From alspnost at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:36:08 2009 From: alspnost at gmail.com (Alastair Stevens) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:36:08 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : > Paul M wrote: >> Dom Latter wrote: >>> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. ?I will probably end up deleting most >>> of them at some point soon. ?I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >>> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... >> >> how big? >> >> I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. > > It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... -AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:26:09 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:26:09 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8581.8040402@latter.org> Alastair Stevens wrote: [list archive] > 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my > entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... 26 megs is a lot of data! Even if most of it is headers, it would still take quite a long time to read all of it... From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:57:58 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:57:58 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Jan M. Dziewulski wrote: > Can I have a copy of it? Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. (Not just replies sent to me rather than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). Strictly speaking, by the rules of netiquette and (less importantly) copyright I shouldn't forward these to anybody else without permission, but A) I'm sure it's all innocuous B) does anyone give a stuff? In other surroundings I'm not sure I'd bother asking (about a handful of semi-private emails) but I believe that there are people here who take privacy issues very seriously. If anybody does care, do they want to take the tarfile and sanitise it? (Standard mbox format, BTW). As for deleting it myself, I've changed my mind - it's only a few meg - but I may archive it outside of Thunderbird's main directory, if you see what I mean. Any advice on that? How best to stop T-bird chewing up RAM? From robert at cantab.net Sun Jul 5 23:52:06 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:52:06 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September Message-ID: Hi all, SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into the event? I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Send me an email if you'd like to know more. Robert. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090705/4a84ec08/attachment.htm From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 00:15:36 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:15:36 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/7/5 Robert Schumann : > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into > the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! > I've just check schedule of my family trip to Poland and I can take part in the event. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Mon Jul 6 01:02:55 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:02:55 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090705230255.GA2859@weber> On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 10:52:06PM +0100, Robert Schumann wrote: > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Yeah it's great fun this actually. I won't have time to run it, but I'd like to help out again. From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Tue Jul 7 12:37:11 2009 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:37:11 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some > imagination into the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but > unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence > I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated > in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from > minimal to as much as you want! I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use free software!" TTFN Simon. -- Simon Andrews PhD Babraham Bioinformatics www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk +44 (0) 1223 496463 From jt at camalyn.org Tue Jul 7 19:14:33 2009 From: jt at camalyn.org (jt) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:14:33 +0100 Subject: JOB: Technical Customer Services Manager // London Message-ID: <4A538279.8090304@camalyn.org> Hello I am looking to recruit a Technical Customer Services Manager for a technology company in London. What you must be ? an experienced Technical Helpdesk or Service desk Manager in a (preferably mobile) telecommunications/IT environment. You must have a thorough understanding of the customer's technology and be able to build immediate respect from your team which will be key in managing, building and developing this technical team further. Technical knowledge preferably needs to include: ? MySQL Querying, SIP, TCP/IP, LAN, DSL, Wi-Fi ? Advanced knowledge of Excel, Word, and PowerPoint is essential ? Ability to write SQL queries would be a definite bonus point The role - To manage, track, grow, develop & mentor a dedicated team providing telephone & online service to an outstanding standard throughout the world. To assist the management team by providing the voice of the customer for product development and testing of new products. The successful candidate - The successful candidate must be a self-starter with good knowledge of customer service/helpdesk call & contact centers and have a solid track record of excellent performance. The candidate must be confident in learning new software packages to an advanced level to be able to administer policies and procedure changes. Previous Skills/Experience/Attributes Required: ? Dynamic with the ability to build confidence and trust of the customer service team from the word go ? Managing, growing and developing call centre/helpdesk/customer care teams ? Excellent man-management skills to include training and on-going development of staff ? Managing outsourced partners (e.g. outsourced call centre vendors) ? Experience of the telecoms/IT sector would be highly beneficial & likely to be essential in this position ? Change programs within a customer service or helpdesk environment ? CRM and helpdesk systems knowledge would be hugely beneficial The package is exceptional and will include a great base + bonus, private medical insurance, permanent health insurance, 25 days annual leave, group life (death in Service x4 salary), pension ? contrib at 4.5%, travel insurance, fully expensed mobile. I believe a season ticket loan may be available too. In addition, I would be in a position to offer any person that commences employment with this customer via my representation a one-off payment of ?500. Please e-mail me using james at camalyn.org to learn more. Kind regards James // James Tobin // Camalyn // +44 (0) 7952 145 127 From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 12:01:10 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:01:10 +0100 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface Message-ID: Hi, Do you know if it possible (and how) to create the virtual interface with DHCP when the physical one has static IP? I've got following error message: [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# cat /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0:1 DEVICE=eth0:1 ONBOOT=no BOOTPROTO=dhcp [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# ifup eth0:1 Determining IP information for eth0:1...SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address failed. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 9 12:26:08 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:26:08 +0200 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A55C5C0.6060206@latter.org> Googling [eth0 static eth0:1 dhcp] digs up these: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=137652 http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-808987.html which may be useful reading/ From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 10 14:13:06 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:13:06 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to > be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used > to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% > point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. The above isn't entirely true, as many of you might have privately suspected. The other day, with (I think) a system update running and some sort of heavyweight web page loaded, (and all the usual cruft) I came back to find the swap usage up to 66%. But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. I'm bidding for a 512MB stick on ebay. That should take me up to 768MB, which should handle a typical myspace page. From thomas at horsten.com Sun Jul 12 03:42:38 2009 From: thomas at horsten.com (Thomas Horsten) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:42:38 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Message-ID: <5d932cdc0907111842v35e51e83y189aa2b8efc798c5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : >> Can I have a copy of it? > > Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you > when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list > correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. ?(Not just replies sent to me rather > than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). I think the list archives on my server go back further than that, from since I started running the list server in 2002. http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ has it as mbox files. except all the email addresses have been replaced with whatever at hidden (to prevent spam harvesters). http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ Cheers Thomas From tomharling at aol.com Sun Jul 12 17:01:04 2009 From: tomharling at aol.com (Tom Harling) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:01:04 +0100 Subject: software freedom day? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A59FAB0.9040508@aol.com> Hi Just thought of this + haven't been following the CLUG mail that closely so maybe it's already been mentioned, so my apologies if so. Any plans for software freedom day this year, such as who is turning up, what will be there, stuff to bring e.g. live CDs and the like? Thanks Tom From robert at cantab.net Mon Jul 13 07:05:35 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:05:35 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: 2009/7/7 Simon Andrews > > On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > > Hi all, >> >> SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into >> the event? >> >> I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm >> not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to >> organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the >> effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! >> > > I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone > down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth > repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. > > I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like > a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use > free software!" Whoever's organising (Simon?) should go hereand fill in a form for a Saturday stall. There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" - is it good or is it bad for SFD? The "Don't be a pirate" spin is a pretty good one. Robert. > > > TTFN > > Simon. > > -- > Simon Andrews PhD > Babraham Bioinformatics > www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk > simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk > +44 (0) 1223 496463 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090713/0f6d8013/attachment.htm From paul at the-hug.org Mon Jul 13 11:37:14 2009 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:37:14 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> On 13/07/09 06:05, Robert Schumann wrote: > There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD > with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" Shiver me timbers, that's *Talk* Like a Pirate Day[1] m'hearty. Nothing bizarre about that. Some of us old hands have been doing that for many a year. Arrrrrr! -- Paul [1] http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:00:22 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:00:22 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5A16.7090408@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and > system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. but then you can still run out of swap > > On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: >> there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for >> suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to >> ram. >> >> Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if >> not faked. From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:03:59 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:03:59 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out you have to do "swapoff" then swapon to clear it; of course, this can break your system if by chance you do actually need swap to make it work on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being faster at the edge), then you can swapoff/on each swap in turn to see if you're genuinely not overcommitted on memory HTH From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 18:18:17 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:18:17 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> Message-ID: Hi, The same day there will be BSD conference in Cambridge [1]. I suggest to connect both events. Wawrzek [1] http://www.ukuug.org/events/eurobsdcon2009/schedule/ -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 13 21:33:14 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:33:14 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. > > to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as > used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out On *my* system (Ubuntu 9.04) reported swap usage does go down as well as up. In particular killing off a long-running Firefox session generally frees up a (relatively) huge amount of physical RAM and swap. If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after next time I need to do this. > on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per > disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being > faster at the edge), But that's interesting. I always had this idea that the partitions started at the centre and worked outwards. I think. Despite a long history of working with hard drives at really quite low levels I don't think I ever really thought too hard about where things went physically. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 14 11:23:15 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:23:15 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5C4E83.1030403@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after > next time I need to do this. Hell, even if you're not, here are the (edited) figures. The top number is the K of physical RAM used, the bottom is the amount of swap used, and both go down as I close down a Usenet client, then Thunderbird, and finally Firefox. -/+ buffers/cache: 316136 Swap: 206948 -/+ buffers/cache: 286300 Swap: 180888 -/+ buffers/cache: 246380 Swap: 158460 -/+ buffers/cache: 144832 Swap: 109096 From dom at latter.org Sun Jul 19 20:31:13 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:31:13 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. Message-ID: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Problem: customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) local firewalls in those particular offices. My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. (Presumably this port works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB this is not the same as running pop3 over port 110. Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per service. Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/QuestionsAndAnswers (last Q&A) so I've done this: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 But I can't connect to port 110. Here's some more info: servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 which looks sensible to me. System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 Any ideas? From colinj at mx5.org.uk Sun Jul 19 21:52:09 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:52:09 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Colin On 19 Jul 2009, at 19:31, Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due > to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > > My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. > (Presumably this port > works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB > this is not the same > as running pop3 over port 110. > > Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per > service. > > Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/ > QuestionsAndAnswers > (last Q&A) so I've done this: > > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT > --to-port 995 > > But I can't connect to port 110. > > Here's some more info: > > servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat > Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) > pkts bytes target prot opt in out > source destination > 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * > 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 > > which looks sensible to me. > > System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 > > Any ideas? > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 20 01:33:39 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:33:39 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A63AD53.4000509@mansfield.co.uk> can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2595.txt From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:52:27 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:52:27 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Not quite sure what you mean there. I don't want two instances of dovecot running, though. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:56:30 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:56:30 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A64232E.1060800@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 >> >> But I can't connect to port 110. > > have you got the permit forward rule? No. > iptables -A FORWARD -d w.x.y.z -p tcp --dport 110 -j ACCEPT w.x.y.z is the local IP address I presume. and also > can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? I'm not sure if or how you can force the client to use TLS. It seems to be optional. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 20:21:44 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:21:44 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> Message-ID: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming > connection. But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? I've found the following (similar) script on the web... Are all the policy lines essential? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ REDIRECT --to-port 3128 From colinj at mx5.org.uk Mon Jul 20 22:02:36 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:02:36 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> Message-ID: You can start multiple instances of the same unix process with different startup port flags with different ports at the same time. Colin On 20 Jul 2009, at 19:21, Dom Latter wrote: > colin johnston wrote: >> You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming >> connection. > > But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. > > Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? > > I've found the following (similar) script on the web... > Are all the policy lines essential? > > #!/bin/bash > # enable ip forward > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > > /sbin/iptables --flush > /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ > REDIRECT --to-port 3128 > > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:35:44 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:35:44 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in the INPUT table. And have you tested locally and remotely with netcat? 'nc localhost 995' ? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 13:20:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:53 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Longman wrote: > What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L > INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in > the INPUT table. This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 13:58:41 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:58:41 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Longman wrote: >> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L >> INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in >> the INPUT table. > > This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by > default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward You don't need this unless you have a multi-homed machine working as a gateway. > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT You only want this if this host is a router ala 'echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward' From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 14:20:43 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:43 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Longman wrote: >> /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > > I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a > reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer > because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a > firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most > hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. It's behind a proper hardware firewall anyway. I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward one port to another without breaking anything else. If I use the line above plus the (existing) port forward line would it work? >> /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you > don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. No users as such but do need to send mail, fetch o/s updates, etc. From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 15:13:07 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:13:07 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward > one port to another without breaking anything else. Then you just need (I think!): iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY iptables -t filter --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t filter --policy FORWARD DENY iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy INPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 995 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT From clug at jul17pri.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:37:05 2009 From: clug at jul17pri.co.uk (Julian Price) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:37:05 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > Solution: open the port. Ask them to open it, if they don't know how then show them. If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and drop my letters down the chimney? Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. Thanks, Julian From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 16:45:55 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:45:55 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65D4A3.8070309@gasops.co.uk> * Julian Price wrote: > If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I > didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and > drop my letters down the chimney? Quite often you are at the client end of a connection and want to do something that, either rightly or wrongly, is blocked by your network provider. In the past I've had to do things to get SIP traffic to work undetected via my HSDPA connection, and just phoning my 3G provider and asking them to allow SIP traffic is not and was not an option. In these circumstances you have to work around these minor set backs. If a network admin has blocked 110 but 995 is open then let the games begin. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:58:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:58:53 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5BD.1070608@latter.org> Longman wrote: > * Dom Latter wrote: >> I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward >> one port to another without breaking anything else. > > Then you just need (I think!): > > iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY Would this not break other incoming connections? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:59:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:59:40 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5EC.8020404@latter.org> Julian Price wrote: > Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. It's the customer's customer's office... and the customer's customer is .gov.uk. Getting firewall rules changed probably takes a committee meeting and four weeks. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 20:16:18 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:16:18 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6605F2.3030704@latter.org> Phil Lee wrote: > Such a radical change in government IT security could not possibly > considered with a full enquiry by GCHQ and the commissioning of a report by > independent security consultants taking months. > THEN it will get back to the committee (who wouldn't dare make the decision > themselves). > > Sadly, I've been there :( Yes, very believable. The irony being that I'm trying to *increase* their security. From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Wed Jul 22 12:12:09 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:12:09 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 Message-ID: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. From mcconville.steve at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 15:38:24 2009 From: mcconville.steve at gmail.com (Steve McConville) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:38:24 +0100 Subject: dual monitor video card Message-ID: <56652bc0907220638x51168844yd7e77dcb0b638aaf@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could recommend either a video card or a place where I could better aim this question :) I want more screen space for my desktop, so I was considering buying a dual-headed video card that works well with linux (ubuntu 9.04, to be more precise). I have no real need for 3D accelleration (but it doesn't hurt) and would like to minimise proprietary blob if possible. It would be going in a PCI express slot. Thanks, -- steev http://www.daikaiju.org.uk/~steve/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 00:55:54 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:55:54 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Message-ID: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in window, Edit button, and add a key binding. ? From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:01:35 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:01:35 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: > Tom Ellis wrote: > > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. > > in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in > window, Edit button, and add a key binding. Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. Tom From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:07:25 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:07:25 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> Message-ID: <4A679BAD.5040909@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: >> Tom Ellis wrote: >>> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd >>> set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. >> in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in >> window, Edit button, and add a key binding. > > Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use > it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar > and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. I'd try xmodmap instead. From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:02:21 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:02:21 +0100 Subject: Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR Message-ID: Hi, This time I would like to take opportunity and let you know about Linux job in booking.com. Description below. BTW there is similar position open in Amsterdam and booking.com constantly looking for Perl people (and now for webdesigner too). Please let me know if you know anybody interested. Wawrzek Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR As a Jr. UNIX System Administrator you will assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of our business critical systems in order for Booking.com to maintain its leading position in the market and continue to deliver in respect to our continued growth. This positions reports to the UNIX Team Leader in Cambridge. Booking.com is the market leader in Europe for on-line hotel reservations with more than 1300 employees and a total of 26 offices worldwide. Key Responsibilities: Your role will be to assist the Unix System Administration Team to ensure smooth system-run by performing updating, installing, troubleshooting, recovering and maintaining of the existing and new features. Therefore you will be self-motivated, approachable and adaptable and have excellent communication skills (written and verbal). You will also be enthusiastic about providing the best possible service internally and externally. Key Responsibility Areas: * Assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of existing systems; * Ability to efficiently resolve tickets and items in the IT ticket system * Provide polite and customer focused handling of calls, e-mails and tickets and reroute to the internal Help Desk if necessary * Create and configure new user accounts and compile software for users * Analyse and troubleshoot system problems * Assist with the administration of web application servers, database servers, and business infrastructure servers as necessary. * Interface between production, development and other teams within the company to develop business-critical systems * Work with system users to define their needs, identify problems, evaluating potential solutions, demonstrating, installing and implementing improvements * Collaborate with the Unix Team in the design and development of the system to meet user needs and respond to/anticipate technological advancements Required Skills: * 2 ? 5 years experience within an IT Department (i.e Help Desk role) * Strong English communication skills both verbally and written * Ability to interact with different cultures and levels of management * Proactive and ability to introduce new processes * Entrepreneurial drive to implement process improvements * Ability to work independently and also be part of a Team * Available to work outside of normal business hours if needed Desirable Skills: * Linux and/or systems administration; * UNIX scripting and systems administration automation; * Some experience of administering MySQL; * Familiarity with Internet services such as DNS, E-mail transport, etc. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com Thu Jul 23 17:21:00 2009 From: jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com (Jonathan Whiteland) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:21:00 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge Message-ID: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Wonder if anyone's got a recommendation? My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall Router" that's over 4.5 years old, so it'd probably be sensible to replace it anyway. I don't necessarily need inbound VPN support (I VPN out through the current router direct from my desktop to work) but I do need wifi. And multiple ports would be nice (I'm using 3 right now): having an external switch is just one more box/power-supply to go wrong. Any particular manufacturer good with firmware updates (my 3Com had a couple then got dropped - perhaps it was perfect and bug free by then!) Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). Anyhow, I figured there might be people on this list (and not on Virgin/NTL) who might have some better knowledge than me, thanks, Jonathan -- From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:53:07 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:53:07 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Message-ID: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Jonathan Whiteland wrote: > My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to > be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS > problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could > also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). friend who lives on Barnabas Road had lots of problems with talktalk, I got him to switch to a better ISP and it was so much better. I ssh into his machine to keep an eye on it, with TT it was unusable, with new ISP (newnet, static IP with no monthly charge) it was pretty good. Same old philips wireless router, same cabling, only the ISP changed. > I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall if you want your linux box to get the real IP and not live behind a NAT gateway, the Draytek 100 series are good - I've a vigor 110 and it works very well, my linux firewall has the real IP and so I can do interesting tricks with proxying, vpn tunnels, traffic shaping etc. use an atheros card* and you can set up a separate DMZ for wireless - I just fitted a Wistron CM9 to my laptop so, with a 3G modem, it can be a mobile AP and internet gateway. * get a miniPCI card and a miniPCI to PCI adaptor off ebay for a fiver. > Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - > "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- > port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the > same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't > appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). I would definitely get adsl2/2+ - check samknows.com to see what's available in your area and any due dates for 21CN/WBC. The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem between it and some other devices - particularly the Nokia N series phones. Paul From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:59:50 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:59:50 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A6A20C6.3060803@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem oops, I meant "not a bad device". the older linksys WRT54GL is good, the latest ones have lots of reliability problem reports. the Zyxel ones are said to be particularly good when the line attenuation is high, i.e. better at maintaining adsl performance when there's lots of noise, but you need to check which models for that. Belkin ones are actually OK too, but I've found the signal performance is not the best. I have a Netgear WNDR3300, dual band, which works pretty well. It's had mixed reviews but with the latest firmware it seems pretty solid. The 802.11b/g band where I live is pretty crowded but I appear to be the only one with 802.11a. The dlink range xtremeN dual band devices are supposed to be pretty good, but there's less choice when combined with adsl. HTH Paul From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 11:50:17 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:50:17 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. Message-ID: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about three years ago, but hey-ho). With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully slow. So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't (in general) use more swap than RAM. Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. What gives? (Apart from "give up, get a newer PC"). From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:02:44 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:02:44 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about > three years ago, but hey-ho). > > With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap > space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there > and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully > slow. > > So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of > swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't > (in general) use more swap than RAM. > > Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything > like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. > > What gives? What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory consumption? If it's nothing, I wonder if you have a memory leak in X (try to log out and log in again and see if it impacts the memory), or your network card / wireless for example. -Andy From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 12:23:03 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:23:03 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> What gives? > > What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory > consumption? Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB it would only use 300MB of it. From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:33:49 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:33:49 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > Andy Green wrote: >> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >>> What gives? >> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory >> consumption? > > Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than > the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. > > Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to > use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses > up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB > it would only use 300MB of it. There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can leap tall buildings. -Andy From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Jul 2 12:40:27 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:40:27 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> I'm afraid that although I do not know much about 'how' virtual memory works, but I do know that it does not necessarily take just 50%. I'm currently running a process that is heavy on memory. I've got 6GB physical RAM on this machine (64bit kernel etc.), and the process itself had taken 14GB, which meant that the 10GB swap partition was almost full. Amusingly though I then quickly added another temp swap file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) In this case swap is most definitely a crutch. The previous run of this process existed solely within real memory, and it completed overnight. This one has now been running since Sunday, and appears to be running through treacle. I anticipate a trip to the cyborg leg shop. Cheers Ferg On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> Andy Green wrote: >>> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> >> >> >>>> What gives? >>> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for >>> memory >>> consumption? >> >> Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot >> better than >> the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. >> >> Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux >> appear not to >> use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. >> Now it uses >> up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap >> partition to 600MB >> it would only use 300MB of it. > > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the > behaviour > > http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ > > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. > > -Andy > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 13:37:57 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:37:57 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C9C15.3080406@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour Yes, I've fiddled with that. > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going It's curiosity as much as anything. Nothing I've read about Linux and swap has ever mentioned this behaviour. And there's nothing *wrong* with using swap - after all, however much RAM you've got, it makes sense to swap out unused cruft and free up RAM for caching files. > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. Anybody got any cheap 512MB PC-133 SODIMMs then? Nope, didn't think so. From pmpbw at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 14:31:14 2009 From: pmpbw at hotmail.com (Paul Williams) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:31:14 +0000 Subject: meeting Message-ID: Hi I see the next meeting is Sunday at 1PM. Who is going? I want to be there. Paul Williams _________________________________________________________________ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090702/3a6e8894/attachment-0001.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 14:42:19 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:42:19 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is rebooted or you do "swapoff". there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if not faked. Paul From colinj at mx5.org.uk Fri Jul 3 14:51:04 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:51:04 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: crashdumps in swap due to temp emergency shutdowns last night :):) Colin On 3 Jul 2009, at 13:42, Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb >> swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:08:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:08:40 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox and any other heavy hitters, it drops. My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. However much RAM you've got, something comes along that will exceed it. Usually a myspace page. From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:34:52 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:34:52 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? Message-ID: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... From will.pink at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:03:02 2009 From: will.pink at gmail.com (william pink) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:03:02 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <7891dd830907030703r510768a7l16ed2c971be16caa@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > Paul M wrote: > > Ferg wrote: > >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox > and any other heavy hitters, it drops. I am afraid I agree with Paul M once my web servers start using a large amount of swap the only way of decreasing this is using swapoff -a just make you do a swapon -a after its cleared. W > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090703/dcb322fd/attachment-0001.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 16:27:21 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:27:21 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most > of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but > just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... how big? I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. From ferg at scotgate.org Fri Jul 3 16:33:31 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:33:31 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. Cheers Ferg On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 16:42:11 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:11 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most >> of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... > > how big? > > I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. From alspnost at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:36:08 2009 From: alspnost at gmail.com (Alastair Stevens) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:36:08 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : > Paul M wrote: >> Dom Latter wrote: >>> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. ?I will probably end up deleting most >>> of them at some point soon. ?I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >>> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... >> >> how big? >> >> I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. > > It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... -AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:26:09 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:26:09 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8581.8040402@latter.org> Alastair Stevens wrote: [list archive] > 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my > entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... 26 megs is a lot of data! Even if most of it is headers, it would still take quite a long time to read all of it... From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:57:58 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:57:58 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Jan M. Dziewulski wrote: > Can I have a copy of it? Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. (Not just replies sent to me rather than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). Strictly speaking, by the rules of netiquette and (less importantly) copyright I shouldn't forward these to anybody else without permission, but A) I'm sure it's all innocuous B) does anyone give a stuff? In other surroundings I'm not sure I'd bother asking (about a handful of semi-private emails) but I believe that there are people here who take privacy issues very seriously. If anybody does care, do they want to take the tarfile and sanitise it? (Standard mbox format, BTW). As for deleting it myself, I've changed my mind - it's only a few meg - but I may archive it outside of Thunderbird's main directory, if you see what I mean. Any advice on that? How best to stop T-bird chewing up RAM? From robert at cantab.net Sun Jul 5 23:52:06 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:52:06 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September Message-ID: Hi all, SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into the event? I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Send me an email if you'd like to know more. Robert. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090705/4a84ec08/attachment-0001.htm From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 00:15:36 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:15:36 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/7/5 Robert Schumann : > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into > the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! > I've just check schedule of my family trip to Poland and I can take part in the event. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Mon Jul 6 01:02:55 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:02:55 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090705230255.GA2859@weber> On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 10:52:06PM +0100, Robert Schumann wrote: > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Yeah it's great fun this actually. I won't have time to run it, but I'd like to help out again. From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Tue Jul 7 12:37:11 2009 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:37:11 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some > imagination into the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but > unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence > I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated > in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from > minimal to as much as you want! I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use free software!" TTFN Simon. -- Simon Andrews PhD Babraham Bioinformatics www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk +44 (0) 1223 496463 From jt at camalyn.org Tue Jul 7 19:14:33 2009 From: jt at camalyn.org (jt) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:14:33 +0100 Subject: JOB: Technical Customer Services Manager // London Message-ID: <4A538279.8090304@camalyn.org> Hello I am looking to recruit a Technical Customer Services Manager for a technology company in London. What you must be ? an experienced Technical Helpdesk or Service desk Manager in a (preferably mobile) telecommunications/IT environment. You must have a thorough understanding of the customer's technology and be able to build immediate respect from your team which will be key in managing, building and developing this technical team further. Technical knowledge preferably needs to include: ? MySQL Querying, SIP, TCP/IP, LAN, DSL, Wi-Fi ? Advanced knowledge of Excel, Word, and PowerPoint is essential ? Ability to write SQL queries would be a definite bonus point The role - To manage, track, grow, develop & mentor a dedicated team providing telephone & online service to an outstanding standard throughout the world. To assist the management team by providing the voice of the customer for product development and testing of new products. The successful candidate - The successful candidate must be a self-starter with good knowledge of customer service/helpdesk call & contact centers and have a solid track record of excellent performance. The candidate must be confident in learning new software packages to an advanced level to be able to administer policies and procedure changes. Previous Skills/Experience/Attributes Required: ? Dynamic with the ability to build confidence and trust of the customer service team from the word go ? Managing, growing and developing call centre/helpdesk/customer care teams ? Excellent man-management skills to include training and on-going development of staff ? Managing outsourced partners (e.g. outsourced call centre vendors) ? Experience of the telecoms/IT sector would be highly beneficial & likely to be essential in this position ? Change programs within a customer service or helpdesk environment ? CRM and helpdesk systems knowledge would be hugely beneficial The package is exceptional and will include a great base + bonus, private medical insurance, permanent health insurance, 25 days annual leave, group life (death in Service x4 salary), pension ? contrib at 4.5%, travel insurance, fully expensed mobile. I believe a season ticket loan may be available too. In addition, I would be in a position to offer any person that commences employment with this customer via my representation a one-off payment of ?500. Please e-mail me using james at camalyn.org to learn more. Kind regards James // James Tobin // Camalyn // +44 (0) 7952 145 127 From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 12:01:10 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:01:10 +0100 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface Message-ID: Hi, Do you know if it possible (and how) to create the virtual interface with DHCP when the physical one has static IP? I've got following error message: [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# cat /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0:1 DEVICE=eth0:1 ONBOOT=no BOOTPROTO=dhcp [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# ifup eth0:1 Determining IP information for eth0:1...SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address failed. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 9 12:26:08 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:26:08 +0200 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A55C5C0.6060206@latter.org> Googling [eth0 static eth0:1 dhcp] digs up these: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=137652 http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-808987.html which may be useful reading/ From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 10 14:13:06 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:13:06 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to > be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used > to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% > point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. The above isn't entirely true, as many of you might have privately suspected. The other day, with (I think) a system update running and some sort of heavyweight web page loaded, (and all the usual cruft) I came back to find the swap usage up to 66%. But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. I'm bidding for a 512MB stick on ebay. That should take me up to 768MB, which should handle a typical myspace page. From thomas at horsten.com Sun Jul 12 03:42:38 2009 From: thomas at horsten.com (Thomas Horsten) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:42:38 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Message-ID: <5d932cdc0907111842v35e51e83y189aa2b8efc798c5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : >> Can I have a copy of it? > > Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you > when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list > correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. ?(Not just replies sent to me rather > than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). I think the list archives on my server go back further than that, from since I started running the list server in 2002. http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ has it as mbox files. except all the email addresses have been replaced with whatever at hidden (to prevent spam harvesters). http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ Cheers Thomas From tomharling at aol.com Sun Jul 12 17:01:04 2009 From: tomharling at aol.com (Tom Harling) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:01:04 +0100 Subject: software freedom day? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A59FAB0.9040508@aol.com> Hi Just thought of this + haven't been following the CLUG mail that closely so maybe it's already been mentioned, so my apologies if so. Any plans for software freedom day this year, such as who is turning up, what will be there, stuff to bring e.g. live CDs and the like? Thanks Tom From robert at cantab.net Mon Jul 13 07:05:35 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:05:35 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: 2009/7/7 Simon Andrews > > On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > > Hi all, >> >> SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into >> the event? >> >> I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm >> not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to >> organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the >> effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! >> > > I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone > down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth > repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. > > I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like > a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use > free software!" Whoever's organising (Simon?) should go hereand fill in a form for a Saturday stall. There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" - is it good or is it bad for SFD? The "Don't be a pirate" spin is a pretty good one. Robert. > > > TTFN > > Simon. > > -- > Simon Andrews PhD > Babraham Bioinformatics > www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk > simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk > +44 (0) 1223 496463 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090713/0f6d8013/attachment-0001.htm From paul at the-hug.org Mon Jul 13 11:37:14 2009 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:37:14 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> On 13/07/09 06:05, Robert Schumann wrote: > There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD > with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" Shiver me timbers, that's *Talk* Like a Pirate Day[1] m'hearty. Nothing bizarre about that. Some of us old hands have been doing that for many a year. Arrrrrr! -- Paul [1] http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:00:22 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:00:22 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5A16.7090408@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and > system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. but then you can still run out of swap > > On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: >> there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for >> suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to >> ram. >> >> Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if >> not faked. From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:03:59 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:03:59 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out you have to do "swapoff" then swapon to clear it; of course, this can break your system if by chance you do actually need swap to make it work on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being faster at the edge), then you can swapoff/on each swap in turn to see if you're genuinely not overcommitted on memory HTH From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 18:18:17 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:18:17 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> Message-ID: Hi, The same day there will be BSD conference in Cambridge [1]. I suggest to connect both events. Wawrzek [1] http://www.ukuug.org/events/eurobsdcon2009/schedule/ -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 13 21:33:14 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:33:14 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. > > to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as > used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out On *my* system (Ubuntu 9.04) reported swap usage does go down as well as up. In particular killing off a long-running Firefox session generally frees up a (relatively) huge amount of physical RAM and swap. If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after next time I need to do this. > on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per > disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being > faster at the edge), But that's interesting. I always had this idea that the partitions started at the centre and worked outwards. I think. Despite a long history of working with hard drives at really quite low levels I don't think I ever really thought too hard about where things went physically. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 14 11:23:15 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:23:15 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5C4E83.1030403@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after > next time I need to do this. Hell, even if you're not, here are the (edited) figures. The top number is the K of physical RAM used, the bottom is the amount of swap used, and both go down as I close down a Usenet client, then Thunderbird, and finally Firefox. -/+ buffers/cache: 316136 Swap: 206948 -/+ buffers/cache: 286300 Swap: 180888 -/+ buffers/cache: 246380 Swap: 158460 -/+ buffers/cache: 144832 Swap: 109096 From dom at latter.org Sun Jul 19 20:31:13 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:31:13 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. Message-ID: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Problem: customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) local firewalls in those particular offices. My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. (Presumably this port works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB this is not the same as running pop3 over port 110. Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per service. Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/QuestionsAndAnswers (last Q&A) so I've done this: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 But I can't connect to port 110. Here's some more info: servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 which looks sensible to me. System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 Any ideas? From colinj at mx5.org.uk Sun Jul 19 21:52:09 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:52:09 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Colin On 19 Jul 2009, at 19:31, Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due > to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > > My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. > (Presumably this port > works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB > this is not the same > as running pop3 over port 110. > > Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per > service. > > Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/ > QuestionsAndAnswers > (last Q&A) so I've done this: > > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT > --to-port 995 > > But I can't connect to port 110. > > Here's some more info: > > servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat > Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) > pkts bytes target prot opt in out > source destination > 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * > 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 > > which looks sensible to me. > > System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 > > Any ideas? > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 20 01:33:39 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:33:39 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A63AD53.4000509@mansfield.co.uk> can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2595.txt From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:52:27 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:52:27 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Not quite sure what you mean there. I don't want two instances of dovecot running, though. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:56:30 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:56:30 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A64232E.1060800@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 >> >> But I can't connect to port 110. > > have you got the permit forward rule? No. > iptables -A FORWARD -d w.x.y.z -p tcp --dport 110 -j ACCEPT w.x.y.z is the local IP address I presume. and also > can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? I'm not sure if or how you can force the client to use TLS. It seems to be optional. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 20:21:44 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:21:44 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> Message-ID: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming > connection. But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? I've found the following (similar) script on the web... Are all the policy lines essential? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ REDIRECT --to-port 3128 From colinj at mx5.org.uk Mon Jul 20 22:02:36 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:02:36 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> Message-ID: You can start multiple instances of the same unix process with different startup port flags with different ports at the same time. Colin On 20 Jul 2009, at 19:21, Dom Latter wrote: > colin johnston wrote: >> You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming >> connection. > > But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. > > Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? > > I've found the following (similar) script on the web... > Are all the policy lines essential? > > #!/bin/bash > # enable ip forward > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > > /sbin/iptables --flush > /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ > REDIRECT --to-port 3128 > > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:35:44 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:35:44 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in the INPUT table. And have you tested locally and remotely with netcat? 'nc localhost 995' ? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 13:20:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:53 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Longman wrote: > What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L > INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in > the INPUT table. This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 13:58:41 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:58:41 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Longman wrote: >> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L >> INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in >> the INPUT table. > > This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by > default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward You don't need this unless you have a multi-homed machine working as a gateway. > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT You only want this if this host is a router ala 'echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward' From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 14:20:43 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:43 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Longman wrote: >> /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > > I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a > reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer > because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a > firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most > hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. It's behind a proper hardware firewall anyway. I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward one port to another without breaking anything else. If I use the line above plus the (existing) port forward line would it work? >> /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you > don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. No users as such but do need to send mail, fetch o/s updates, etc. From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 15:13:07 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:13:07 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward > one port to another without breaking anything else. Then you just need (I think!): iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY iptables -t filter --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t filter --policy FORWARD DENY iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy INPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 995 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT From clug at jul17pri.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:37:05 2009 From: clug at jul17pri.co.uk (Julian Price) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:37:05 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > Solution: open the port. Ask them to open it, if they don't know how then show them. If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and drop my letters down the chimney? Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. Thanks, Julian From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 16:45:55 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:45:55 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65D4A3.8070309@gasops.co.uk> * Julian Price wrote: > If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I > didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and > drop my letters down the chimney? Quite often you are at the client end of a connection and want to do something that, either rightly or wrongly, is blocked by your network provider. In the past I've had to do things to get SIP traffic to work undetected via my HSDPA connection, and just phoning my 3G provider and asking them to allow SIP traffic is not and was not an option. In these circumstances you have to work around these minor set backs. If a network admin has blocked 110 but 995 is open then let the games begin. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:58:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:58:53 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5BD.1070608@latter.org> Longman wrote: > * Dom Latter wrote: >> I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward >> one port to another without breaking anything else. > > Then you just need (I think!): > > iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY Would this not break other incoming connections? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:59:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:59:40 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5EC.8020404@latter.org> Julian Price wrote: > Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. It's the customer's customer's office... and the customer's customer is .gov.uk. Getting firewall rules changed probably takes a committee meeting and four weeks. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 20:16:18 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:16:18 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6605F2.3030704@latter.org> Phil Lee wrote: > Such a radical change in government IT security could not possibly > considered with a full enquiry by GCHQ and the commissioning of a report by > independent security consultants taking months. > THEN it will get back to the committee (who wouldn't dare make the decision > themselves). > > Sadly, I've been there :( Yes, very believable. The irony being that I'm trying to *increase* their security. From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Wed Jul 22 12:12:09 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:12:09 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 Message-ID: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. From mcconville.steve at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 15:38:24 2009 From: mcconville.steve at gmail.com (Steve McConville) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:38:24 +0100 Subject: dual monitor video card Message-ID: <56652bc0907220638x51168844yd7e77dcb0b638aaf@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could recommend either a video card or a place where I could better aim this question :) I want more screen space for my desktop, so I was considering buying a dual-headed video card that works well with linux (ubuntu 9.04, to be more precise). I have no real need for 3D accelleration (but it doesn't hurt) and would like to minimise proprietary blob if possible. It would be going in a PCI express slot. Thanks, -- steev http://www.daikaiju.org.uk/~steve/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 00:55:54 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:55:54 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Message-ID: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in window, Edit button, and add a key binding. ? From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:01:35 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:01:35 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: > Tom Ellis wrote: > > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. > > in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in > window, Edit button, and add a key binding. Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. Tom From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:07:25 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:07:25 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> Message-ID: <4A679BAD.5040909@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: >> Tom Ellis wrote: >>> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd >>> set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. >> in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in >> window, Edit button, and add a key binding. > > Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use > it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar > and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. I'd try xmodmap instead. From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:02:21 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:02:21 +0100 Subject: Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR Message-ID: Hi, This time I would like to take opportunity and let you know about Linux job in booking.com. Description below. BTW there is similar position open in Amsterdam and booking.com constantly looking for Perl people (and now for webdesigner too). Please let me know if you know anybody interested. Wawrzek Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR As a Jr. UNIX System Administrator you will assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of our business critical systems in order for Booking.com to maintain its leading position in the market and continue to deliver in respect to our continued growth. This positions reports to the UNIX Team Leader in Cambridge. Booking.com is the market leader in Europe for on-line hotel reservations with more than 1300 employees and a total of 26 offices worldwide. Key Responsibilities: Your role will be to assist the Unix System Administration Team to ensure smooth system-run by performing updating, installing, troubleshooting, recovering and maintaining of the existing and new features. Therefore you will be self-motivated, approachable and adaptable and have excellent communication skills (written and verbal). You will also be enthusiastic about providing the best possible service internally and externally. Key Responsibility Areas: * Assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of existing systems; * Ability to efficiently resolve tickets and items in the IT ticket system * Provide polite and customer focused handling of calls, e-mails and tickets and reroute to the internal Help Desk if necessary * Create and configure new user accounts and compile software for users * Analyse and troubleshoot system problems * Assist with the administration of web application servers, database servers, and business infrastructure servers as necessary. * Interface between production, development and other teams within the company to develop business-critical systems * Work with system users to define their needs, identify problems, evaluating potential solutions, demonstrating, installing and implementing improvements * Collaborate with the Unix Team in the design and development of the system to meet user needs and respond to/anticipate technological advancements Required Skills: * 2 ? 5 years experience within an IT Department (i.e Help Desk role) * Strong English communication skills both verbally and written * Ability to interact with different cultures and levels of management * Proactive and ability to introduce new processes * Entrepreneurial drive to implement process improvements * Ability to work independently and also be part of a Team * Available to work outside of normal business hours if needed Desirable Skills: * Linux and/or systems administration; * UNIX scripting and systems administration automation; * Some experience of administering MySQL; * Familiarity with Internet services such as DNS, E-mail transport, etc. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com Thu Jul 23 17:21:00 2009 From: jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com (Jonathan Whiteland) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:21:00 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge Message-ID: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Wonder if anyone's got a recommendation? My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall Router" that's over 4.5 years old, so it'd probably be sensible to replace it anyway. I don't necessarily need inbound VPN support (I VPN out through the current router direct from my desktop to work) but I do need wifi. And multiple ports would be nice (I'm using 3 right now): having an external switch is just one more box/power-supply to go wrong. Any particular manufacturer good with firmware updates (my 3Com had a couple then got dropped - perhaps it was perfect and bug free by then!) Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). Anyhow, I figured there might be people on this list (and not on Virgin/NTL) who might have some better knowledge than me, thanks, Jonathan -- From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:53:07 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:53:07 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Message-ID: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Jonathan Whiteland wrote: > My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to > be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS > problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could > also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). friend who lives on Barnabas Road had lots of problems with talktalk, I got him to switch to a better ISP and it was so much better. I ssh into his machine to keep an eye on it, with TT it was unusable, with new ISP (newnet, static IP with no monthly charge) it was pretty good. Same old philips wireless router, same cabling, only the ISP changed. > I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall if you want your linux box to get the real IP and not live behind a NAT gateway, the Draytek 100 series are good - I've a vigor 110 and it works very well, my linux firewall has the real IP and so I can do interesting tricks with proxying, vpn tunnels, traffic shaping etc. use an atheros card* and you can set up a separate DMZ for wireless - I just fitted a Wistron CM9 to my laptop so, with a 3G modem, it can be a mobile AP and internet gateway. * get a miniPCI card and a miniPCI to PCI adaptor off ebay for a fiver. > Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - > "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- > port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the > same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't > appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). I would definitely get adsl2/2+ - check samknows.com to see what's available in your area and any due dates for 21CN/WBC. The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem between it and some other devices - particularly the Nokia N series phones. Paul From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:59:50 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:59:50 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A6A20C6.3060803@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem oops, I meant "not a bad device". the older linksys WRT54GL is good, the latest ones have lots of reliability problem reports. the Zyxel ones are said to be particularly good when the line attenuation is high, i.e. better at maintaining adsl performance when there's lots of noise, but you need to check which models for that. Belkin ones are actually OK too, but I've found the signal performance is not the best. I have a Netgear WNDR3300, dual band, which works pretty well. It's had mixed reviews but with the latest firmware it seems pretty solid. The 802.11b/g band where I live is pretty crowded but I appear to be the only one with 802.11a. The dlink range xtremeN dual band devices are supposed to be pretty good, but there's less choice when combined with adsl. HTH Paul From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 11:50:17 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:50:17 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. Message-ID: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about three years ago, but hey-ho). With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully slow. So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't (in general) use more swap than RAM. Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. What gives? (Apart from "give up, get a newer PC"). From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:02:44 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:02:44 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > I'm running Ubuntu in half a gig of RAM. (Seemed like *loads* about > three years ago, but hey-ho). > > With Ubuntu 7.04 I had a gig of swap space. I noticed that swap > space usage never seemed to go past 50% - instead it would get there > and then anything like opening a new browser tab would be painfully > slow. > > So when I repartitioned and installed 9.04, I reduced the amount of > swap to about 800 MB. I reasoned that perhaps the kernel wouldn't > (in general) use more swap than RAM. > > Now my swap space usage goes up to 50% and stays there, and anything > like opening a new browser tab is then painfully slow. > > What gives? What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory consumption? If it's nothing, I wonder if you have a memory leak in X (try to log out and log in again and see if it impacts the memory), or your network card / wireless for example. -Andy From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 12:23:03 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:23:03 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> What gives? > > What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory > consumption? Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB it would only use 300MB of it. From andy at warmcat.com Thu Jul 2 12:33:49 2009 From: andy at warmcat.com (Andy Green) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:33:49 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > Andy Green wrote: >> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >>> What gives? >> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for memory >> consumption? > > Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot better than > the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. > > Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux appear not to > use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. Now it uses > up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap partition to 600MB > it would only use 300MB of it. There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can leap tall buildings. -Andy From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Jul 2 12:40:27 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:40:27 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> I'm afraid that although I do not know much about 'how' virtual memory works, but I do know that it does not necessarily take just 50%. I'm currently running a process that is heavy on memory. I've got 6GB physical RAM on this machine (64bit kernel etc.), and the process itself had taken 14GB, which meant that the 10GB swap partition was almost full. Amusingly though I then quickly added another temp swap file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) In this case swap is most definitely a crutch. The previous run of this process existed solely within real memory, and it completed overnight. This one has now been running since Sunday, and appears to be running through treacle. I anticipate a trip to the cyborg leg shop. Cheers Ferg On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Andy Green wrote: > On 07/02/2009 11:23 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> Andy Green wrote: >>> On 07/02/2009 10:50 AM, Dom Latter wrote: >> >> >> >>>> What gives? >>> What does top, then press capital M say is the worst offender for >>> memory >>> consumption? >> >> Firefox, naturally. Although this version (3.0.x) is a lot lot >> better than >> the old one (2.?) which really needed restarting once a day. >> >> Anyway, that wasn't my point. My question is - why does Linux >> appear not to >> use more than 50% of swap? Previously it would use up to ~500MB. >> Now it uses >> up to ~400MB. I strongly suspect that if I resized my swap >> partition to 600MB >> it would only use 300MB of it. > > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the > behaviour > > http://lwn.net/Articles/83588/ > > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. > > -Andy > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 2 13:37:57 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:37:57 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> Message-ID: <4A4C9C15.3080406@latter.org> Andy Green wrote: > There's a thing called "swappiness" that might help change the behaviour Yes, I've fiddled with that. > but actually, swap is a crutch until you get some more memory. So the > detail of the imperfect operation of your crutch is probably not going It's curiosity as much as anything. Nothing I've read about Linux and swap has ever mentioned this behaviour. And there's nothing *wrong* with using swap - after all, however much RAM you've got, it makes sense to swap out unused cruft and free up RAM for caching files. > to be as rewarding it as getting some new, 1GByte cyborg legs that can > leap tall buildings. Anybody got any cheap 512MB PC-133 SODIMMs then? Nope, didn't think so. From pmpbw at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 14:31:14 2009 From: pmpbw at hotmail.com (Paul Williams) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:31:14 +0000 Subject: meeting Message-ID: Hi I see the next meeting is Sunday at 1PM. Who is going? I want to be there. Paul Williams _________________________________________________________________ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090702/3a6e8894/attachment-0002.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 14:42:19 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:42:19 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is rebooted or you do "swapoff". there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if not faked. Paul From colinj at mx5.org.uk Fri Jul 3 14:51:04 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:51:04 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: crashdumps in swap due to temp emergency shutdowns last night :):) Colin On 3 Jul 2009, at 13:42, Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb >> swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:08:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:08:40 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Ferg wrote: >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > rebooted or you do "swapoff". I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox and any other heavy hitters, it drops. My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to ram. However much RAM you've got, something comes along that will exceed it. Usually a myspace page. From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 15:34:52 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:34:52 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? Message-ID: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... From will.pink at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:03:02 2009 From: will.pink at gmail.com (william pink) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:03:02 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <7891dd830907030703r510768a7l16ed2c971be16caa@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > Paul M wrote: > > Ferg wrote: > >> file (rather than partition) and now it's using 9GB of total 19Gb swap > >> space. So perhaps there is some truth to the 50% rule? :-) > > > > once swap has been used, it won't become "unused" until machine is > > rebooted or you do "swapoff". > > I beg to differ. If I'm up at the 50% point, then kill off Firefox > and any other heavy hitters, it drops. I am afraid I agree with Paul M once my web servers start using a large amount of swap the only way of decreasing this is using swapoff -a just make you do a swapon -a after its cleared. W > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090703/dcb322fd/attachment-0002.htm From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 3 16:27:21 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:27:21 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most > of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but > just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... how big? I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. From ferg at scotgate.org Fri Jul 3 16:33:31 2009 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:33:31 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. Cheers Ferg On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: > there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for > suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to > ram. > > Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if > not faked. > > Paul > From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 3 16:42:11 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:42:11 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. I will probably end up deleting most >> of them at some point soon. I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... > > how big? > > I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. From alspnost at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:36:08 2009 From: alspnost at gmail.com (Alastair Stevens) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:36:08 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : > Paul M wrote: >> Dom Latter wrote: >>> I've got every(?) post since April 2003 here. ?I will probably end up deleting most >>> of them at some point soon. ?I suppose the archives are available elsewhere but >>> just in case someone wants them in a nice simple tarfile... >> >> how big? >> >> I'm sure for laughs it should be kept. > > It says here: 26779921 bytes; about 5500 messages. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... -AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:26:09 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:26:09 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4536e91b0907031336l2777c553sfb81fedfb372f6ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8581.8040402@latter.org> Alastair Stevens wrote: [list archive] > 26 megs - is that all?! Seems surprisingly small. Then again, my > entire home mail archive is 24M, and that's over 12 years worth.... 26 megs is a lot of data! Even if most of it is headers, it would still take quite a long time to read all of it... From dom at latter.org Sat Jul 4 00:57:58 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:57:58 +0200 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> Message-ID: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Jan M. Dziewulski wrote: > Can I have a copy of it? Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. (Not just replies sent to me rather than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). Strictly speaking, by the rules of netiquette and (less importantly) copyright I shouldn't forward these to anybody else without permission, but A) I'm sure it's all innocuous B) does anyone give a stuff? In other surroundings I'm not sure I'd bother asking (about a handful of semi-private emails) but I believe that there are people here who take privacy issues very seriously. If anybody does care, do they want to take the tarfile and sanitise it? (Standard mbox format, BTW). As for deleting it myself, I've changed my mind - it's only a few meg - but I may archive it outside of Thunderbird's main directory, if you see what I mean. Any advice on that? How best to stop T-bird chewing up RAM? From robert at cantab.net Sun Jul 5 23:52:06 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:52:06 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September Message-ID: Hi all, SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into the event? I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Send me an email if you'd like to know more. Robert. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090705/4a84ec08/attachment-0002.htm From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 00:15:36 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:15:36 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/7/5 Robert Schumann : > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into > the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! > I've just check schedule of my family trip to Poland and I can take part in the event. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Mon Jul 6 01:02:55 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:02:55 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090705230255.GA2859@weber> On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 10:52:06PM +0100, Robert Schumann wrote: > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm > not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to > organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the > effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! Yeah it's great fun this actually. I won't have time to run it, but I'd like to help out again. From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Tue Jul 7 12:37:11 2009 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:37:11 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > Hi all, > > SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some > imagination into the event? > > I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but > unfortunately I'm not going to be in the country on the day; hence > I'm looking for someone to organise. As those who have participated > in previous years can testify, the effort involved is anywhere from > minimal to as much as you want! I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use free software!" TTFN Simon. -- Simon Andrews PhD Babraham Bioinformatics www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk +44 (0) 1223 496463 From jt at camalyn.org Tue Jul 7 19:14:33 2009 From: jt at camalyn.org (jt) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:14:33 +0100 Subject: JOB: Technical Customer Services Manager // London Message-ID: <4A538279.8090304@camalyn.org> Hello I am looking to recruit a Technical Customer Services Manager for a technology company in London. What you must be ? an experienced Technical Helpdesk or Service desk Manager in a (preferably mobile) telecommunications/IT environment. You must have a thorough understanding of the customer's technology and be able to build immediate respect from your team which will be key in managing, building and developing this technical team further. Technical knowledge preferably needs to include: ? MySQL Querying, SIP, TCP/IP, LAN, DSL, Wi-Fi ? Advanced knowledge of Excel, Word, and PowerPoint is essential ? Ability to write SQL queries would be a definite bonus point The role - To manage, track, grow, develop & mentor a dedicated team providing telephone & online service to an outstanding standard throughout the world. To assist the management team by providing the voice of the customer for product development and testing of new products. The successful candidate - The successful candidate must be a self-starter with good knowledge of customer service/helpdesk call & contact centers and have a solid track record of excellent performance. The candidate must be confident in learning new software packages to an advanced level to be able to administer policies and procedure changes. Previous Skills/Experience/Attributes Required: ? Dynamic with the ability to build confidence and trust of the customer service team from the word go ? Managing, growing and developing call centre/helpdesk/customer care teams ? Excellent man-management skills to include training and on-going development of staff ? Managing outsourced partners (e.g. outsourced call centre vendors) ? Experience of the telecoms/IT sector would be highly beneficial & likely to be essential in this position ? Change programs within a customer service or helpdesk environment ? CRM and helpdesk systems knowledge would be hugely beneficial The package is exceptional and will include a great base + bonus, private medical insurance, permanent health insurance, 25 days annual leave, group life (death in Service x4 salary), pension ? contrib at 4.5%, travel insurance, fully expensed mobile. I believe a season ticket loan may be available too. In addition, I would be in a position to offer any person that commences employment with this customer via my representation a one-off payment of ?500. Please e-mail me using james at camalyn.org to learn more. Kind regards James // James Tobin // Camalyn // +44 (0) 7952 145 127 From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 12:01:10 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:01:10 +0100 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface Message-ID: Hi, Do you know if it possible (and how) to create the virtual interface with DHCP when the physical one has static IP? I've got following error message: [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# cat /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0:1 DEVICE=eth0:1 ONBOOT=no BOOTPROTO=dhcp [root at dc01xml-03 ~]# ifup eth0:1 Determining IP information for eth0:1...SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address SIOCSIFFLAGS: Cannot assign requested address failed. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Thu Jul 9 12:26:08 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:26:08 +0200 Subject: DHCP on virtual interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A55C5C0.6060206@latter.org> Googling [eth0 static eth0:1 dhcp] digs up these: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=137652 http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-808987.html which may be useful reading/ From dom at latter.org Fri Jul 10 14:13:06 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:13:06 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > My point is that the maximum amount of swap used on my system *seems* to > be a percentage (which happens to be 50%) rather than an amount: it used > to use up to 500MB, now it uses up to 400MB. And when it gets to the 50% > point, actions such as opening a new Firefox tab are s...l...o...w. The above isn't entirely true, as many of you might have privately suspected. The other day, with (I think) a system update running and some sort of heavyweight web page loaded, (and all the usual cruft) I came back to find the swap usage up to 66%. But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. I'm bidding for a 512MB stick on ebay. That should take me up to 768MB, which should handle a typical myspace page. From thomas at horsten.com Sun Jul 12 03:42:38 2009 From: thomas at horsten.com (Thomas Horsten) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:42:38 +0100 Subject: List archives - anyone want them? In-Reply-To: <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> References: <4A4E08FC.4070004@latter.org> <4A4E1549.1060509@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E18C3.9090507@latter.org> <4A4E85F1.8060507@dziewulski.com> <4A4E8CF6.6050000@latter.org> Message-ID: <5d932cdc0907111842v35e51e83y189aa2b8efc798c5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/3 Dom Latter : >> Can I have a copy of it? > > Most certainly, and I was just about to tar it up and stick it on a webserver near you > when I thought to have a quick look and I notice that I have a *few* bits of off-list > correspondence in amongst the on-list stuff. ?(Not just replies sent to me rather > than the list because of the "reply-to" policy). I think the list archives on my server go back further than that, from since I started running the list server in 2002. http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ has it as mbox files. except all the email addresses have been replaced with whatever at hidden (to prevent spam harvesters). http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/ Cheers Thomas From tomharling at aol.com Sun Jul 12 17:01:04 2009 From: tomharling at aol.com (Tom Harling) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:01:04 +0100 Subject: software freedom day? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A59FAB0.9040508@aol.com> Hi Just thought of this + haven't been following the CLUG mail that closely so maybe it's already been mentioned, so my apologies if so. Any plans for software freedom day this year, such as who is turning up, what will be there, stuff to bring e.g. live CDs and the like? Thanks Tom From robert at cantab.net Mon Jul 13 07:05:35 2009 From: robert at cantab.net (Robert Schumann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:05:35 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: 2009/7/7 Simon Andrews > > On 5 Jul 2009, at 22:52, Robert Schumann wrote: > > Hi all, >> >> SFD is in two months' time. Would you like to inject some imagination into >> the event? >> >> I have already registered a team for Cambridge SFD, but unfortunately I'm >> not going to be in the country on the day; hence I'm looking for someone to >> organise. As those who have participated in previous years can testify, the >> effort involved is anywhere from minimal to as much as you want! >> > > I'm happy to get involved again. The stall in the market place has gone > down well for the last couple of years and I think it would be worth > repeating that event even if people want to organise other things as well. > > I notice that software freedom day coincides with international speak like > a pirate day - should we make something of this? "Don't be a pirate - use > free software!" Whoever's organising (Simon?) should go hereand fill in a form for a Saturday stall. There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" - is it good or is it bad for SFD? The "Don't be a pirate" spin is a pretty good one. Robert. > > > TTFN > > Simon. > > -- > Simon Andrews PhD > Babraham Bioinformatics > www.bioinformatics.bbsrc.ac.uk > simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk > +44 (0) 1223 496463 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20090713/0f6d8013/attachment-0002.htm From paul at the-hug.org Mon Jul 13 11:37:14 2009 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:37:14 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> On 13/07/09 06:05, Robert Schumann wrote: > There has been some discussion/consternation at the coincidence of SFD > with this somewhat bizarre "speak like a pirate day" Shiver me timbers, that's *Talk* Like a Pirate Day[1] m'hearty. Nothing bizarre about that. Some of us old hands have been doing that for many a year. Arrrrrr! -- Paul [1] http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:00:22 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:00:22 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <5FE8A8A2-18D0-49AA-B8C5-A2C671196DDA@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5A16.7090408@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Having swap or not could be the difference between a hard crash and > system slowness when memory needs do exceed physical memory. but then you can still run out of swap > > On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Paul M wrote: >> there's almost no point in having swap these days, unless using for >> suspend/resume or crash/panic dumps as disk is so slow compared to >> ram. >> >> Seymour Cray, once said (allegedly) that memory is like sex, better if >> not faked. From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 13 18:03:59 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:03:59 +0100 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out you have to do "swapoff" then swapon to clear it; of course, this can break your system if by chance you do actually need swap to make it work on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being faster at the edge), then you can swapoff/on each swap in turn to see if you're genuinely not overcommitted on memory HTH From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 18:18:17 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:18:17 +0100 Subject: Software Freedom Day: 19 September In-Reply-To: <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> References: <1394BDF9-161D-4D7C-ABCC-8E25F84D1411@bbsrc.ac.uk> <4A5B004A.7020309@the-hug.org> Message-ID: Hi, The same day there will be BSD conference in Cambridge [1]. I suggest to connect both events. Wawrzek [1] http://www.ukuug.org/events/eurobsdcon2009/schedule/ -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 13 21:33:14 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:33:14 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> But in general it does climb up to 50% and stay there. > > to clarify a previous post, once you've used swap it is always marked as > used even if you stop needing it and nothing is swapped out On *my* system (Ubuntu 9.04) reported swap usage does go down as well as up. In particular killing off a long-running Firefox session generally frees up a (relatively) huge amount of physical RAM and swap. If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after next time I need to do this. > on multi-disk systems you should consider having multiple swaps, one per > disk (at the start of the disk to take advantage of zoned drives being > faster at the edge), But that's interesting. I always had this idea that the partitions started at the centre and worked outwards. I think. Despite a long history of working with hard drives at really quite low levels I don't think I ever really thought too hard about where things went physically. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 14 11:23:15 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:23:15 +0200 Subject: Swap space usage. In-Reply-To: <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> References: <4A4C82D9.8070002@latter.org> <4A4C85C4.2040003@warmcat.com> <4A4C8A87.5060007@latter.org> <4A4C8D0D.8000005@warmcat.com> <598AE0FD-923C-452F-9BA6-0D2824BB3790@scotgate.org> <4A4DFCAB.4080302@mansfield.co.uk> <4A4E02D8.4030608@latter.org> <4A573052.7080001@latter.org> <4A5B5AEF.50206@mansfield.co.uk> <4A5B8BFA.6050705@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A5C4E83.1030403@latter.org> Dom Latter wrote: > If you're interested I'll post the results of "free" before and after > next time I need to do this. Hell, even if you're not, here are the (edited) figures. The top number is the K of physical RAM used, the bottom is the amount of swap used, and both go down as I close down a Usenet client, then Thunderbird, and finally Firefox. -/+ buffers/cache: 316136 Swap: 206948 -/+ buffers/cache: 286300 Swap: 180888 -/+ buffers/cache: 246380 Swap: 158460 -/+ buffers/cache: 144832 Swap: 109096 From dom at latter.org Sun Jul 19 20:31:13 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:31:13 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. Message-ID: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Problem: customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) local firewalls in those particular offices. My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. (Presumably this port works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB this is not the same as running pop3 over port 110. Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per service. Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/QuestionsAndAnswers (last Q&A) so I've done this: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 But I can't connect to port 110. Here's some more info: servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 which looks sensible to me. System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 Any ideas? From colinj at mx5.org.uk Sun Jul 19 21:52:09 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:52:09 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Colin On 19 Jul 2009, at 19:31, Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due > to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > > My suggested fix is to deliver pop3s over port 110 as well. > (Presumably this port > works fine as the previous insecure email server worked fine). NB > this is not the same > as running pop3 over port 110. > > Dovecot (mail delivery software) apparently only does one port per > service. > > Suggested fix is taken from here http://wiki.dovecot.org/ > QuestionsAndAnswers > (last Q&A) so I've done this: > > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT > --to-port 995 > > But I can't connect to port 110. > > Here's some more info: > > servername:~# iptables -L -vn -t nat > Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 317 packets, 16224 bytes) > pkts bytes target prot opt in out > source destination > 0 0 REDIRECT tcp -- * * > 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:110 redir ports 995 > > which looks sensible to me. > > System: Debian 5.0.1 Kernel: 2.6.26-2-amd64 > > Any ideas? > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Jul 20 01:33:39 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:33:39 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A63AD53.4000509@mansfield.co.uk> can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2595.txt From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:52:27 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:52:27 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > why not add second service in xinetd pointing to same 995 service Not quite sure what you mean there. I don't want two instances of dovecot running, though. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 09:56:30 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:56:30 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A63AD9A.1010902@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A64232E.1060800@latter.org> Paul M wrote: > Dom Latter wrote: >> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 >> >> But I can't connect to port 110. > > have you got the permit forward rule? No. > iptables -A FORWARD -d w.x.y.z -p tcp --dport 110 -j ACCEPT w.x.y.z is the local IP address I presume. and also > can you not simply enable STARTTLS in pop3 server on port 110? I'm not sure if or how you can force the client to use TLS. It seems to be optional. From dom at latter.org Mon Jul 20 20:21:44 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:21:44 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> Message-ID: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> colin johnston wrote: > You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming > connection. But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? I've found the following (similar) script on the web... Are all the policy lines essential? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ REDIRECT --to-port 3128 From colinj at mx5.org.uk Mon Jul 20 22:02:36 2009 From: colinj at mx5.org.uk (colin johnston) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:02:36 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A64223B.5050909@latter.org> <90A608BF-4700-483A-88A5-9702AF2E71A0@mx5.org.uk> <4A64B5B8.5010604@latter.org> Message-ID: You can start multiple instances of the same unix process with different startup port flags with different ports at the same time. Colin On 20 Jul 2009, at 19:21, Dom Latter wrote: > colin johnston wrote: >> You start the pop3 service via the xinetd loading based on incoming >> connection. > > But then only one port is working at a time, no? Less than ideal. > > Why am I failing to do the simple port redirect? > > I've found the following (similar) script on the web... > Are all the policy lines essential? > > #!/bin/bash > # enable ip forward > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > > /sbin/iptables --flush > /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT > /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > # enable destination port redirect from 80 to 3128 > /sbin/iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j \ > REDIRECT --to-port 3128 > > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:35:44 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:35:44 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in the INPUT table. And have you tested locally and remotely with netcat? 'nc localhost 995' ? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 13:20:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:53 +0200 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Longman wrote: > What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L > INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in > the INPUT table. This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? #!/bin/bash # enable ip forward echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward /sbin/iptables --flush /sbin/iptables -t nat --flush /sbin/iptables -t mangle --flush /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT /sbin/iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 13:58:41 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:58:41 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Longman wrote: >> What is the output of 'netstat -patnl' and also what about 'iptables -L >> INPUT -vv' ? Don't forget that you will still need an ACCEPT rule in >> the INPUT table. > > This is where I'm falling short. I thought everything was accepted by > default. I've found the magic runes below. Are all of them needed? > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward You don't need this unless you have a multi-homed machine working as a gateway. > /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. > /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. > /sbin/iptables --policy FORWARD ACCEPT You only want this if this host is a router ala 'echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward' From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 14:20:43 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:20:43 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Longman wrote: >> /sbin/iptables --policy INPUT ACCEPT > > I'd have a policy of DENY for this *or* have a final rule that does a > reject properly, --reject-with tcp-reset for TCP etc. This is nicer > because it does make your host look like a normal machine rather than a > firewall but I've found with the deluge of home firewall products most > hosts look like firewalls these days anyhoo. It's behind a proper hardware firewall anyway. I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward one port to another without breaking anything else. If I use the line above plus the (existing) port forward line would it work? >> /sbin/iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT > > This is relatively safe unless you have users on this host that you > don't want making remote arbitrary outbound connections.. No users as such but do need to send mail, fetch o/s updates, etc. From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 15:13:07 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:13:07 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward > one port to another without breaking anything else. Then you just need (I think!): iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY iptables -t filter --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t filter --policy FORWARD DENY iptables -t nat --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy PREROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy INPUT ACCEPT iptables -t mangle --policy POSTROUTING ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 110 -j REDIRECT --to-port 995 iptables -t filter -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 995 -j ACCEPT iptables -t filter -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT From clug at jul17pri.co.uk Tue Jul 21 11:37:05 2009 From: clug at jul17pri.co.uk (Julian Price) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:37:05 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> Message-ID: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Problem: > > customer can't connect to port 995 for pop3s from one location due to (I'm guessing) > local firewalls in those particular offices. > Solution: open the port. Ask them to open it, if they don't know how then show them. If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and drop my letters down the chimney? Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. Thanks, Julian From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Jul 21 16:45:55 2009 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:45:55 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65D4A3.8070309@gasops.co.uk> * Julian Price wrote: > If can't/won't? What do you think my postman would say if I told them I > didn't have a letter box & would they please climb up the drain pipe and > drop my letters down the chimney? Quite often you are at the client end of a connection and want to do something that, either rightly or wrongly, is blocked by your network provider. In the past I've had to do things to get SIP traffic to work undetected via my HSDPA connection, and just phoning my 3G provider and asking them to allow SIP traffic is not and was not an option. In these circumstances you have to work around these minor set backs. If a network admin has blocked 110 but 995 is open then let the games begin. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:58:53 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:58:53 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658BF0.1010908@gasops.co.uk> <4A65A495.9030302@latter.org> <4A65AD71.8070204@gasops.co.uk> <4A65B29B.9020704@latter.org> <4A65BEE3.60709@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5BD.1070608@latter.org> Longman wrote: > * Dom Latter wrote: >> I'm quite happy with how it is, I just want the magic runes to forward >> one port to another without breaking anything else. > > Then you just need (I think!): > > iptables -t filter --policy INPUT DENY Would this not break other incoming connections? From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 17:59:40 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:59:40 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> References: <4A636671.4030300@latter.org> <4A658C41.1090104@jul17pri.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A65E5EC.8020404@latter.org> Julian Price wrote: > Sounds to me like the customer is giving you the run-around. It's the customer's customer's office... and the customer's customer is .gov.uk. Getting firewall rules changed probably takes a committee meeting and four weeks. From dom at latter.org Tue Jul 21 20:16:18 2009 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:16:18 +0100 Subject: iptables routing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6605F2.3030704@latter.org> Phil Lee wrote: > Such a radical change in government IT security could not possibly > considered with a full enquiry by GCHQ and the commissioning of a report by > independent security consultants taking months. > THEN it will get back to the committee (who wouldn't dare make the decision > themselves). > > Sadly, I've been there :( Yes, very believable. The irony being that I'm trying to *increase* their security. From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Wed Jul 22 12:12:09 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:12:09 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 Message-ID: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. From mcconville.steve at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 15:38:24 2009 From: mcconville.steve at gmail.com (Steve McConville) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:38:24 +0100 Subject: dual monitor video card Message-ID: <56652bc0907220638x51168844yd7e77dcb0b638aaf@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could recommend either a video card or a place where I could better aim this question :) I want more screen space for my desktop, so I was considering buying a dual-headed video card that works well with linux (ubuntu 9.04, to be more precise). I have no real need for 3D accelleration (but it doesn't hurt) and would like to minimise proprietary blob if possible. It would be going in a PCI express slot. Thanks, -- steev http://www.daikaiju.org.uk/~steve/ From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 00:55:54 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:55:54 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> Message-ID: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in window, Edit button, and add a key binding. ? From tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:01:35 2009 From: tom-lists-clug2 at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:01:35 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: > Tom Ellis wrote: > > Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd > > set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. > > in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in > window, Edit button, and add a key binding. Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. Tom From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Jul 23 01:07:25 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:07:25 +0100 Subject: Ctrl-H backspace in KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> References: <20090722101209.GA4897@weber> <4A6798FA.9070204@mansfield.co.uk> <20090722230135.GA5980@weber> Message-ID: <4A679BAD.5040909@mansfield.co.uk> Tom Ellis wrote: > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:55:54PM +0100, Paul wrote: >> Tom Ellis wrote: >>> Does anyone know how to bind Ctrl-H to backspace in KDE4 apps? I think I'd >>> set it up specially for KDE3 but I've just upgraded and it's gone. >> in kconsole, edit current profile -> input tab. choose default in >> window, Edit button, and add a key binding. > > Thanks, but Ctrl-H works as backspace in Konsole anyway (and I don't use > it). It's all the other KDE apps I'm talking about, e.g. the location bar > and all the text boxes Konqueror displays. I'd try xmodmap instead. From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 12:02:21 2009 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:02:21 +0100 Subject: Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR Message-ID: Hi, This time I would like to take opportunity and let you know about Linux job in booking.com. Description below. BTW there is similar position open in Amsterdam and booking.com constantly looking for Perl people (and now for webdesigner too). Please let me know if you know anybody interested. Wawrzek Jr. UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR As a Jr. UNIX System Administrator you will assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of our business critical systems in order for Booking.com to maintain its leading position in the market and continue to deliver in respect to our continued growth. This positions reports to the UNIX Team Leader in Cambridge. Booking.com is the market leader in Europe for on-line hotel reservations with more than 1300 employees and a total of 26 offices worldwide. Key Responsibilities: Your role will be to assist the Unix System Administration Team to ensure smooth system-run by performing updating, installing, troubleshooting, recovering and maintaining of the existing and new features. Therefore you will be self-motivated, approachable and adaptable and have excellent communication skills (written and verbal). You will also be enthusiastic about providing the best possible service internally and externally. Key Responsibility Areas: * Assist the Unix Team with the maintenance and support of existing systems; * Ability to efficiently resolve tickets and items in the IT ticket system * Provide polite and customer focused handling of calls, e-mails and tickets and reroute to the internal Help Desk if necessary * Create and configure new user accounts and compile software for users * Analyse and troubleshoot system problems * Assist with the administration of web application servers, database servers, and business infrastructure servers as necessary. * Interface between production, development and other teams within the company to develop business-critical systems * Work with system users to define their needs, identify problems, evaluating potential solutions, demonstrating, installing and implementing improvements * Collaborate with the Unix Team in the design and development of the system to meet user needs and respond to/anticipate technological advancements Required Skills: * 2 ? 5 years experience within an IT Department (i.e Help Desk role) * Strong English communication skills both verbally and written * Ability to interact with different cultures and levels of management * Proactive and ability to introduce new processes * Entrepreneurial drive to implement process improvements * Ability to work independently and also be part of a Team * Available to work outside of normal business hours if needed Desirable Skills: * Linux and/or systems administration; * UNIX scripting and systems administration automation; * Some experience of administering MySQL; * Familiarity with Internet services such as DNS, E-mail transport, etc. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com Thu Jul 23 17:21:00 2009 From: jonathan.whiteland at ytko.com (Jonathan Whiteland) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:21:00 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge Message-ID: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Wonder if anyone's got a recommendation? My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall Router" that's over 4.5 years old, so it'd probably be sensible to replace it anyway. I don't necessarily need inbound VPN support (I VPN out through the current router direct from my desktop to work) but I do need wifi. And multiple ports would be nice (I'm using 3 right now): having an external switch is just one more box/power-supply to go wrong. Any particular manufacturer good with firmware updates (my 3Com had a couple then got dropped - perhaps it was perfect and bug free by then!) Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). Anyhow, I figured there might be people on this list (and not on Virgin/NTL) who might have some better knowledge than me, thanks, Jonathan -- From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:53:07 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:53:07 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> Message-ID: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Jonathan Whiteland wrote: > My internet connection at home is far flake-ier than I'd like it to > be. I've eliminated wifi problems; operating system problems; DNS > problems; so I'm now thinking it could be the ADSL router (it could > also be my ISP of course, TalkTalk. Yup, TalkTalk). friend who lives on Barnabas Road had lots of problems with talktalk, I got him to switch to a better ISP and it was so much better. I ssh into his machine to keep an eye on it, with TT it was unusable, with new ISP (newnet, static IP with no monthly charge) it was pretty good. Same old philips wireless router, same cabling, only the ISP changed. > I've currently got a "3Com OfficeConnect ADSL Wireless 11g Firewall if you want your linux box to get the real IP and not live behind a NAT gateway, the Draytek 100 series are good - I've a vigor 110 and it works very well, my linux firewall has the real IP and so I can do interesting tricks with proxying, vpn tunnels, traffic shaping etc. use an atheros card* and you can set up a separate DMZ for wireless - I just fitted a Wistron CM9 to my laptop so, with a 3G modem, it can be a mobile AP and internet gateway. * get a miniPCI card and a miniPCI to PCI adaptor off ebay for a fiver. > Maybe I should just plump for Amazon's current best selling one - > "Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Firewall Router with 4- > port 10/100 switch" because consumer routers are all pretty much the > same... should I indeed worry about getting ADSL2+, since it doesn't > appear to be in Cambridge yet (but future proof?). I would definitely get adsl2/2+ - check samknows.com to see what's available in your area and any due dates for 21CN/WBC. The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem between it and some other devices - particularly the Nokia N series phones. Paul From paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Jul 24 22:59:50 2009 From: paul+clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:59:50 +0100 Subject: OT: ADSL router for home use in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> References: <7C22A448-D493-4130-B138-B0B9D9B56C4A@ytko.com> <4A6A1F33.8020206@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A6A20C6.3060803@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > The netgear's not a mad device, but there's a compatibility problem oops, I meant "not a bad device". the older linksys WRT54GL is good, the latest ones have lots of reliability problem reports. the Zyxel ones are said to be particularly good when the line attenuation is high, i.e. better at maintaining adsl performance when there's lots of noise, but you need to check which models for that. Belkin ones are actually OK too, but I've found the signal performance is not the best. I have a Netgear WNDR3300, dual band, which works pretty well. It's had mixed reviews but with the latest firmware it seems pretty solid. The 802.11b/g band where I live is pretty crowded but I appear to be the only one with 802.11a. The dlink range xtremeN dual band devices are supposed to be pretty good, but there's less choice when combined with adsl. HTH Paul