From wawrzek@hidden Thu Oct 2 01:24:10 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (wawrzek@gmail.com) Date: Thu Oct 2 01:24:19 2008 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333g5d89a60ah8ccfb8ac577b92da@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333k5c5fe63bu643d6c29f7f7cea6@mail.gmail.com> <1BA35008-CBED-4AF8-9BCD-9D6C8A620B8B@ytko.com> Message-ID: <20081001232410.GA9842@gmail.com> Hi, Anything new on website front? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodniczański vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl From ejlilley@hidden Thu Oct 2 23:55:52 2008 From: ejlilley@hidden (Edward Lilley) Date: Thu Oct 2 23:56:02 2008 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > Hi, > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > Wawrzek From ferg@hidden Sat Oct 4 12:15:06 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Sat Oct 4 12:15:24 2008 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Message-ID: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the link: http://scotgate.org. Cheers Ferg On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) > > http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ > > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > > > Wawrzek > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- http://scotgate.org AIM:fergycool skype:fergycool MSN:fergycool Climb up it, kayak down it + make sure it runs on GNU/Linux. "cease to exist, giving my goodbye, drive my car into the ocean, you think I'm dead, but i sail away, on a wave of mutilation!" From tuxbox.guru@hidden Sat Oct 4 16:03:57 2008 From: tuxbox.guru@hidden (Richard) Date: Sat Oct 4 16:04:06 2008 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> Message-ID: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that extensively. Ferg wrote: > In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only > 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general > rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the > link: > > http://scotgate.org. > > Cheers > Ferg > > On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > >> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) >> >> http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ >> >> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. >>> >>> http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek >>> >>> Wawrzek >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug@cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> >> From paul-clug@hidden Sun Oct 5 16:40:52 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul M) Date: Sun Oct 5 16:40:48 2008 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E8D1F4.3090308@mansfield.co.uk> Richard wrote: > Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog > > Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , > but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that > extensively. hmm, you definitely haven't firewalled that off, I get a response when I ping localhost. I think you have a configuration error. when I go to that site, I get 404 not found! :-) From clug@hidden Thu Oct 9 11:20:35 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Thu Oct 9 11:18:53 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy the stuff separately later on? Haven't owned a console since the PS1 though the weather is so crappy I thought it might make a winter spent indoors more fun. From gareth.pullen@hidden Thu Oct 9 11:39:09 2008 From: gareth.pullen@hidden (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu Oct 9 11:39:17 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: ....Snip... >Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? ...Snip... This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've come across (my partner recently got a 360). Ignore the "Bundled games" since it seems to vary from shop to shop, but apart from that it's pretty good. Gareth. From zen13321@hidden Wed Oct 15 08:58:05 2008 From: zen13321@hidden (Mark Roberts) Date: Fri Oct 10 08:58:11 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Hi, Longman wrote: > OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I > impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for > ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has it already. Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. And not just through some hack. Sony added a menu item "Install Other OS" to make it easy and flag their support for it. Plus it has standard USB ports, so getting a keyboard and mouse connected it easy. Though I must admit, I've had my PS3 for almost a year, and haven't got round to putting Linux on it yet. Has anyone on the list tried it? Thinking about it, I've got quite a few gadgets around the house that could at least theoretically run Linux - and some of them do ;) Best regards, Mark. From dom@hidden Fri Oct 10 10:30:51 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Fri Oct 10 09:31:05 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while > simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out > that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page From zen13321@hidden Wed Oct 15 09:44:00 2008 From: zen13321@hidden (Mark Roberts) Date: Fri Oct 10 09:44:05 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F59F40.6040108@zen.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while >> simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out >> that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. > > http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page I didn't know you could do that! Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) From wawrzek@hidden Fri Oct 10 11:58:45 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Fri Oct 10 11:58:52 2008 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Dave Briggs wrote: > I've made a start: http://davedev.org/clug/ - using WordPress and > hacking a pre-existing theme. > What new about website? Do you need any help? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081010/156de6ac/attachment.html From db@hidden Fri Oct 10 12:00:43 2008 From: db@hidden (Dave Briggs) Date: Fri Oct 10 12:00:49 2008 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > What new about website? Do you need any help? Been a little tied up of late, but should have things finished off in the next couple of days. Help could come in the form of some new pictures to fill in some of the gaps, and maybe rewriting some of the text? Cheers -- Dave Briggs db@davepress.net | http://davepress.net | 07525 209589 (Mobile) From bnicolson@hidden Fri Oct 10 16:05:19 2008 From: bnicolson@hidden (bnicolson@ippimail.com) Date: Fri Oct 10 16:05:33 2008 Subject: Sound Converter Message-ID: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 LTS user.) -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From bnicolson@hidden Fri Oct 10 16:22:16 2008 From: bnicolson@hidden (bnicolson@ippimail.com) Date: Fri Oct 10 16:22:37 2008 Subject: Sound Converter In-Reply-To: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <53126.82.16.102.233.1223648536.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Ignore this. I've found Audacity and am happy now. I have sound! :?) Bev. > I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted > from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when > I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed > not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? > Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 > LTS user.) > > -- > Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! > 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From clug@hidden Fri Oct 10 17:30:00 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Fri Oct 10 17:28:08 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48EF74F8.6000708@gasops.co.uk> * Gareth Pullen wrote: > This: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features > is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've Thanks :-) From dom@hidden Fri Oct 10 22:07:20 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Fri Oct 10 21:07:34 2008 Subject: Fwd: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <200810102107.20873.dom@latter.org> Let's try again, shall we... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Date: Friday 10 October 2008 From: Dom Latter To: mark@taurine.org.uk On Wednesday 15 October 2008 09:44:00 Mark Roberts wrote: [Linux on xbox 360] > Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a No UK or EU laws broken, AFAIK. The DMCA is Evil and Stupid and if it applied to me I would find a way of breaking it (well, the bits that try to control what you do with your own posessions in the privacy of your own home) on principle. > warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) > and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using > an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. Indeed - are Sony going to recover some of the good-will they lost through the whole root-kit business? > But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) Especially if MS are basically subsidising the hardware (which was the case with the original Xbox, AFAIK). ------------------------------------------------------- From clug@hidden Sat Oct 11 19:27:57 2008 From: clug@hidden (Jan M. Dziewulski) Date: Sat Oct 11 20:02:55 2008 Subject: CB2... Message-ID: I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy coming down there? -- Janek From hjenkins@hidden Sat Oct 11 13:43:07 2008 From: hjenkins@hidden (hjenkins) Date: Sat Oct 11 21:43:18 2008 Subject: CB2... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30375.142.104.193.193.1223754187.squirrel@wm3.uvic.ca> I'll try and make it. > I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy > coming > down there? > > -- > Janek > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug@hidden Tue Oct 14 17:11:54 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Tue Oct 14 17:13:39 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard > disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has > it already. Apparently the Arcade version won't play xbox games (though not sure how bad a crime this really is). Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual don't state the frequency. From paul-clug@hidden Thu Oct 16 11:04:25 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul M) Date: Thu Oct 16 11:04:38 2008 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] Message-ID: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are customers of virgin/nthell/teleworst. -------- Original Message -------- If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the naughty list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, give you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. Well worth having stored for emergencies: news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable From ferg@hidden Thu Oct 16 11:20:10 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Chris Lindley) Date: Thu Oct 16 11:20:21 2008 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Thanks for that! Coincidentally I had to reboot my cable modem this morning. First time for ages. It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the responsiveness of SLRN. Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:04, Paul M wrote: > possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are > customers > of virgin/nthell/teleworst. > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to > the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). > It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely > clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is > their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the > published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the > naughty > list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, > give > you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. > Well > worth having stored for emergencies: > > news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From onepoint@hidden Thu Oct 16 11:54:31 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu Oct 16 11:54:42 2008 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the > responsiveness of SLRN. How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's pretty up to date! http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 Jeremy Henty From ferg@hidden Thu Oct 16 13:22:37 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Thu Oct 16 13:22:49 2008 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <5304B580-4387-4714-AD6B-60AD2DCBAF27@scotgate.org> Excellent! Just installed SLRN and that brings back some memories. It's quick and easy to read. I may give returning to Pine a miss though! Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:54, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > >> What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the >> responsiveness of SLRN. > > How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's > pretty up to date! > > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul@hidden Thu Oct 16 17:08:48 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu Oct 16 17:08:59 2008 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48F75900.7020408@the-hug.org> On 16/10/08 10:20, Chris Lindley wrote: > It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, > with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current > now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? At my desk I use Thunderbird for news and mail (oh, and RSS via feed2imap but you can use that with any mail client - and I do). -- Paul From gareth.pullen@hidden Thu Oct 16 18:04:46 2008 From: gareth.pullen@hidden (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu Oct 16 18:04:56 2008 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? Message-ID: Afternoon all, I've been looking for a little while for an email client which will store the emails locally, encrypted, preferably not using the swap space (although I've yet to see my Gentoo touch the swap space, even when compiling). I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, but it seems like a lot of hassle... So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? Incidentally, yes, I know GMail stores the mail unencrypted anyway, but that's not the point! Gareth. From dom@hidden Thu Oct 16 23:19:40 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Thu Oct 16 22:19:58 2008 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 16 October 2008 18:04:46 Gareth Pullen wrote: > I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the > archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, > but it seems like a lot of hassle... You will have to do *something* (like enter a password), won't you? > So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? How about: Create an encrypted filesystem: http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. Then make Thunderbird store its mail there. From paul-clug@hidden Fri Oct 17 00:37:54 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Fri Oct 17 00:37:34 2008 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> References: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F7C242.2080804@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Create an encrypted filesystem: > http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html > > You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. many linuxes allow you to create an encrypted file system during install phase (might be hidden in advanced disk options). suse's had it since, er 10.0, and I think umbongo^Wubuntu has had it for a while. one thing to bear in mind if DIY, to make sure if you enter the wrong passphrase/key that you don't blindly force mount + fsck - good idea to store a secure hash of the passphrase/key so you know if it's been entered wrongly! From clug@hidden Mon Oct 20 16:08:09 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Mon Oct 20 16:08:00 2008 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail Message-ID: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options do I have available to me? I want to basically have "fetchmail -d 60" running for multiple people (plus applicable .fetchmailrc files). One way of doing it is not to use the -d option at all and just have fetchmail scripts in people's home directory and call the script from cron. This is what I'm currently doing though it's not elegant. My main concern is not actually starting fetchmail running but how to make sure it is constantly running because in the past it's just stopped in the background and then I've had to su to a persons account to kill it and put it in the background again. From wawrzek@hidden Mon Oct 20 16:22:58 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon Oct 20 16:23:05 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: Hi, My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the computer home. I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to charity). Now problems: I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this week or Mon.,Tues. next one. I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good point. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/ad3137c4/attachment.htm From paul-clug@hidden Mon Oct 20 17:14:01 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul M) Date: Mon Oct 20 17:14:25 2008 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to time, so, instead.... I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy for a long time. From sam.kuper@hidden Mon Oct 20 17:28:01 2008 From: sam.kuper@hidden (Sam Kuper) Date: Mon Oct 20 17:28:14 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the > computer home. > I just set up Ubuntu Server on a machine with that spec; it's working very nicely. > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a bike. > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > If I'm storing one, I'd be happy to install Ubuntu or Debian on it. > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good > point. > People on Freecycle would snap these up in a day or less, but some of them would probably end up on eBay shortly afterwards (it's an easy profit, right?). It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . Further options include: - CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test server!). - Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . All best, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/d432dada/attachment.htm From panupelkonen@hidden Mon Oct 20 19:38:37 2008 From: panupelkonen@hidden (Panu Pelkonen) Date: Mon Oct 20 17:38:50 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: <1224517117433.panupelkonen.48850.E9EVwMsyKRMjxQCk_4L5nQ@luukku.com> I don't live in Cambridge anymore, so I can't really take part in any way. But this type of free hardware would nice for getting one's feet wet in parallel computing - ie. taking a few similar computers and trying out a customised distro such as http://pareto.uab.es/mcreel/PelicanHPC/ or http://clusterknoppix.sw.be/about.htm It would be a nice school project, or even a LUG project.. Panu Wawrzyniec NiewodniczaDski kirjoitti 20.10.2008 kello 17:22: > Hi, > > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The > computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one > of the > computer home. > > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > Now problems: > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we > need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this > week or > Mon.,Tues. next one. > > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned > people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might > be a good > point. > > > > > -- > Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN > Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com > PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name > MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl ................................................................... Luukku Plus paketilla p??set eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista. Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat el?m??si. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku From dom@hidden Mon Oct 20 22:35:48 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Mon Oct 20 21:36:00 2008 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > do I have available to me? What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. Anyway, you can set up users to have no shell access by changing /etc/passwd appropriately: http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.linux.security/2002-10/5876.html and subsequent posts. From wawrzek@hidden Tue Oct 21 00:18:40 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Tue Oct 21 00:18:48 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 04:28:01PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be > made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > It's not necessary. We can grab them for free. If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we give it for free we don't need to do this. [...] > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the > botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a > bike. CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). [...] > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Not bad idea. > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) > Further options include: > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > server!). I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store others. And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea of creating some new content for new website. We should grab computers rather promptly and we can decided what to do with them. > ? Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . > I need to give this link to our sys admin. BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl From tomharling@hidden Tue Oct 21 01:16:41 2008 From: tomharling@hidden (Tom Harling) Date: Tue Oct 21 01:17:01 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute." - could we install and run Folding@Home on them? http://folding.stanford.edu/ From clug@hidden Tue Oct 21 10:57:42 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Tue Oct 21 10:56:24 2008 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FD9986.3010102@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options >> do I have available to me? > > What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more > appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. > I have a remote pop3 server. It doesn't have much disk space (1.6GB). Some people would like to have imap so they can access their box from more than one location, and some accounts need accessing from more than one location at the same time. I've setup an imap box on our lan and use fetchmail to deliver to procmail then I have a procmail recipe to deliver the mail as Maildir. It's also faster for people (or is that a false assumption?) as well as having plentiful HD capacity. My only gripe is that running fetchmail in deamon mode for each user that wants imap access is a little bit hacky since fetchmail never appears to be 100% reliable and sometimes you can find it just doing 'funny stuff' in the background (which then means you need to write a script to check it's running etc). So I've opted to just use a bash script which uses fetchmail (and creates a lock file) and run that from cron, giving a bit more reliability. Obviously I'm logging at various levels to be sure I don't lose mail :-) An alternative would've been to have exim deliver directly to Maildir remotely but since I only want Maildir for some accounts and mbox for others is this possible using exim? Also I could put a new harddisk in the remote box (and it does use LVM so shouldn't be too tricky other than a car journey) but on the LAN we have gigabit whereas we only have a 2M circuit for net access. Suggestions welcome :-) From clug@hidden Tue Oct 21 11:02:12 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Tue Oct 21 11:00:50 2008 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FD9A94.8000905@gasops.co.uk> * Paul M wrote: > Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > > I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to > time, so, instead.... > > I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then > have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to > /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. > > > I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy > for a long time. > > I have a fetchmail script like this: if [ -f /tmp/.xyzfetchmail.lock ] ; then echo 'Script is still running' else echo 1 > /tmp/.zyzfetchmail.lock fetchmail -s --sslproto ssl123 rm -f /tmp/.xyz.fetchmail.lock fi Then execute it from cron. There is an appropriate .fetchmailrc file. This is done for each user (using different lock files). This gives 'fetchmail -d' behaviour. From dom@hidden Tue Oct 21 12:27:16 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Tue Oct 21 11:28:12 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> Message-ID: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: > "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute." - could we install and run Folding@Home on them? If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding@home etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. From ferg@hidden Tue Oct 21 11:50:44 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Tue Oct 21 11:50:56 2008 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Hi, There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding@home IS the whole point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get higher in the ranks: Check out this thread on the Folding forums: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1560 As somebody who really loves messing with homebuilt hardware (and once had their home workstation running on a RAID10 * 9 disc array for the laugh!) I can't say I really disapprove! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 10:27, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: >> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux >> and >> redistribute." - could we install and run Folding@Home on them? > > If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be > a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding@home > etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom@hidden Tue Oct 21 16:34:41 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Tue Oct 21 15:34:56 2008 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > Hi, > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding@home IS the whole > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > higher in the ranks: Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! From ferg@hidden Tue Oct 21 15:53:14 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Tue Oct 21 15:53:27 2008 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Hi, >> >> There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding@home IS the whole >> point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get >> higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From wawrzek@hidden Tue Oct 21 15:55:45 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Tue Oct 21 15:55:55 2008 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > > Hi, > > > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding@home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/efd36bc2/attachment.htm From paul-clug@hidden Tue Oct 21 16:25:53 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul M) Date: Tue Oct 21 16:26:07 2008 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per year on electricity! CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the rest of the chip being power hungry!). Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 of energy. * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 From sam.kuper@hidden Tue Oct 21 18:00:02 2008 From: sam.kuper@hidden (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:00:11 2008 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/21 Paul M > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy consumption substantially. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/9ab68a3e/attachment.htm From sam.kuper@hidden Tue Oct 21 18:11:23 2008 From: sam.kuper@hidden (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:11:34 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Wawrzyniec, 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we > give it for free we don't need > to do this. Fair enough. > CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). > Okay, that's walking distance from me, even carrying a PC. > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > the > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > etc. > > Not bad idea. > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? Feedback, please! > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > > > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would > prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) I'm really short on time. I don't mind installing Debian/Ubuntu on a machine that's in my flat because I can get on with other things while it's running and I'm familiar with the install routines to won't have to spend time researching the install. I appreciate that it would be a nice social event to get a group of us together to install linuxes on these boxes, but I myself don't have time to do that. If anyone else can (and has space for it), then go for it. > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I > would > > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; > I'd > > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > > server!). > > I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store > others. > And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea > of creating some new content for new website. I live in a pretty small flat, and I'm afraid I don't really have room for more than one extra PC. I don't mind writing a few quick words about what I decide to do with it (even if it's just putting Ubuntu on it and selling it on eBay to raise funds for CLUG/FSF/etc. > We should grab computers rather promptly What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > and we can decided what to do > with them. I get the feeling that more people than just me and Wawrzyniec are going to need to be involved if we're going to be able to store enough of these to make a group decision worthwhile. > BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. I probably won't have space to put one of those, unless it's *very* temporary. Even then, it would have to be just one. If I were to end up keeping the PC that goes to my flat (rather than selling it for charity as above, etc) I'd run it headless; if I were to sell it, I could sell it with a VDU. Sorry I can't do more, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/3ea3b507/attachment-0001.htm From tom-lists-clug@hidden Tue Oct 21 18:21:17 2008 From: tom-lists-clug@hidden (Tom Ellis) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:21:26 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > > the > > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > > etc. > > > > Not bad idea. > > > > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? > Feedback, please! Sounds fine to me. From ferg@hidden Tue Oct 21 18:27:10 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:27:20 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> Message-ID: That sounds a plan to me. Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 17:21, Tom Ellis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: >>>> It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the >>>> proceeds to >>> the >>>> Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public >>>> Interest, >>> etc. >>> >>> Not bad idea. >>> >> >> Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of >> the group? >> Feedback, please! > > Sounds fine to me. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From mark_w@hidden Tue Oct 21 22:56:33 2008 From: mark_w@hidden (Mark Wyatt) Date: Tue Oct 21 23:56:43 2008 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - Message-ID: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding@home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > Particularly on one those old Pentium D's which always were rather inefficient in power used per unit of computation. > Ferg wrote: > > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly > detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to > give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p > > My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ > (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider > switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones > that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of > energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole > motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the > rest of the chip being power hungry!). > > Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I > have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 > of energy. > > > > * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 > > ------------------------------ Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). If you've got enough ram, the disk drives often don't need to be active all that much in a low traffic application, so they can end up costing very little power. Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the next revision they do something more appropriate. In the meantime, in a similar role at home I have a Pentium 2140 which, in practice, draws 40 Watts from the wall and which has way more performance than an atom (or the application needs, to be frank). I'd have liked to have looked at the new Via nano stuff, but it wasn't available at the time. Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. -- See Exclusive Video: Hollywood Life's 5th Annual Style Awards http://www.hollywoodlife.net/Awards.aspx?AwardsID=style2008 From zen13321@hidden Wed Oct 22 01:02:27 2008 From: zen13321@hidden (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed Oct 22 01:02:14 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break > my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual > don't state the frequency. Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and white image instead of colour. I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. From wawrzek@hidden Wed Oct 22 01:22:18 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed Oct 22 01:22:26 2008 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021232211.GA7471@gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: Hi Sam and others, > What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > Sorry I cannot. I also would like to dispatch all machine at once. If we don't find plan to use them for 'greater good' I'll take one and pass to you. Generally I think we don't have enough time to organize install part etc. We can pass them to SPI or similar organization but it also can be done by CCDC, so I don't see the point to bother you (or anybody else). So question to all of you. Do you need such computer to anything related to FOSS? It don't have to be any big idea. I.e. I need such computer to test new distributions is very good reason ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl From wawrzek@hidden Wed Oct 22 01:25:13 2008 From: wawrzek@hidden (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed Oct 22 01:25:20 2008 Subject: Eco Music Player Message-ID: <20081021232511.GA7971@gmail.com> Hi, I think it's great idea and it support OGG! http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/trevor-baylis-brands/eco-media-player-revolution/ Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek@gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn@chrome.pl From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 09:56:02 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 09:56:08 2008 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FEDC92.9040205@mansfield.co.uk> Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/21 Paul M > > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > > Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to > keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand > access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and > keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy > consumption substantially. good point, but I am also using it as a print server, mail server, http proxy cache (ginormous squid spool), general linux toolbox, web page testing, VPN termination, mp3 and media server (chipped xbox is client) and more besides... so, it'd spend about 20 hours awake anyway. Oh, and during one thing I've taken a look at and failed, perhaps I'd need a custom kernel, is getting power saving modes working - I can't get the clock speed to dynamically change. I think but without investigating further that the Athlon 32 doesn't offer much in this respect. My core1 Sony laptop will drop its CPU speed by half, and $JOB's core2duo laptop will switch each core separately to half speed too. From paul@hidden Wed Oct 22 10:01:31 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 10:01:34 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 10:15:09 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 10:15:13 2008 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - In-Reply-To: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <48FEE10D.6090102@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Wyatt wrote: > Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more > like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little > as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). d'oh, when I originally worked it out more roughly, I got the right answer, didn't have enough caffeine! I must have been thinking of the total power consumed by the system before I started underclocking! > Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it > is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular > pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the > next revision they do something more appropriate. the "poulsbo" chipset is said to be much better, not entirely sure why it's not been widely adopted. perhaps because existing PC and laptop makers didn't want to produce a completely new system design? http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3276&p=16 > Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly > helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look > particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. I've an APC Smart-UPS SC1500, load is 18% (270VA), current measured externally is 1.5A (~350VA), so, I guess I am losing about 80VA. Not sure of the power factor, but worst case is I am losing 80W. Not so good :-( I get about one mains drop out a month typically averaging up to 20s, and it doesn't return cleanly which is the big problem, hence why I bought a UPS. From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 12:57:29 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 12:57:43 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? Message-ID: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any clues about debugging iptables LOG output? If you want more details... My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's really simple and it's been configured that way for years. I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, links or wget. The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with the problem (but again I could be wrong). I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. Any ideas? TIA, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru@hidden Wed Oct 22 13:02:44 2008 From: tuxbox.guru@hidden (Richard) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:02:54 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Jeremy Henty wrote: > Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at > > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > > the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall > log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any > clues about debugging iptables LOG output? > > If you want more details... > > My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and > ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's > really simple and it's been configured that way for years. > > I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, > links or wget. > > The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a > redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). > > I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the > previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with > the problem (but again I could be wrong). > > I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. > > Any ideas? > > TIA, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > A wild stab in the dark here tho.... I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin defaulted to a value too high. The result would be that some websites would not load at all. Richard P From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 13:32:30 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:32:42 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > defaulted to a value too high. Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: =>ip iflist Interface GRP MTU ... 0 loop 1 1500 ... 1 eth0 2 1500 ... 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... and the OS itself: # ip link show 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? Regards, Jeremy Henty From ferg@hidden Wed Oct 22 13:45:24 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:45:37 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time there! Cheers Ferg *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > > Regards, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From tom-lists-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 13:53:47 2008 From: tom-lists-clug@hidden (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:53:52 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081022115347.GA4960@weber> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45:24PM +0100, Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* Why is lack of encryption a problem? Your bank account will use SSL. Tom From sam.kuper@hidden Wed Oct 22 13:53:50 2008 From: sam.kuper@hidden (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:54:00 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/1132a543/attachment.htm From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 14:56:11 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 13:56:26 2008 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221356.11972.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 15:55:45 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) People tend to only watch one TV for a few hours at a time, not two or more 24/7! My point (if I need to make it clear) being that using old Pentiums purely for distributed scientific computation is a very poor use of energy when a collection of modern chips in a cluster or super computer would do much more per kWh. (At least at first glance; what happens when you factor in the cost of manufacture, I don't know). From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:01:55 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 14:02:12 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810221401.55907.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 13:45:24 Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! Ah, but the Kingston has good real ale, and a couple of free-to-use computers so you don't even have to take your own. From ferg@hidden Wed Oct 22 14:17:19 2008 From: ferg@hidden (Ferg) Date: Wed Oct 22 14:17:29 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Ok I stand corrected! Cheers Ferg On Oct22,2008, at 12:53, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* > [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the > lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/8f4922ff/attachment.htm From tuxbox.guru@hidden Wed Oct 22 14:22:47 2008 From: tuxbox.guru@hidden (Richard) Date: Wed Oct 22 14:22:55 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can can experiment and go wild without boundaries. I dont mean wifi as-in 'Free Internet' .. I mean it as 'Free Network' Richard P Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! > > Cheers > Ferg > > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: >> >>> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >>> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >>> defaulted to a value too high. >> >> Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: >> >> =>ip iflist >> Interface GRP MTU ... >> 0 loop 1 1500 ... >> 1 eth0 2 1500 ... >> 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... >> >> and the OS itself: >> >> # ip link show >> 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... >> 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... >> 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... >> 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... >> >> An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeremy Henty >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug@cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 16:13:30 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:13:46 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for > Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can > can experiment and go wild without boundaries. Have a look at this: http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ From clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:16:01 2008 From: clug@hidden (Ian Spray) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:16:07 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:32:30PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > > > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > > defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > No, I think that supports the theory - you are trying to talk on your LAN with 1500 byte packets, but anything leaving your router for the rest of the world via PPPoA maxes out at 1456, and so will fragment on anythign larger. > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > For Ethernet, yes, but ADSL isn't Ethernet (and VPN's also fall into the 'not-Ethernet' category as the encryption headers use up packet space before you get to the payload). Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see if the problems go away. HTH, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:37:48 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:37:58 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > if the problems go away. That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before iptables applies the rules? Regards, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:46:22 2008 From: tuxbox.guru@hidden (Richard) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:46:30 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. >> > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug@cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > Thanks Dom, The point that scared me was ---- SNIP ---- Get Matrix Broadband Find it on the Matrix The broadband service that you can use throughout the City. Get an ADSL account with the Matrix and we provide high quality broadband that is at the very cutting edge of new technology. You can use your account anywhere there is coverage, and there is no extra cost for roaming around town.' -- END SNIP -- but there is the 'Free' part of it.... so I'll let that slide. The main idea is that the network is not controlled by any single entity, secondly that all systems are community based. For example a Community in Cambourne (of lets say 10 people) do a long distance link to next community.. in the end there is a mess of star topology networks spreading everywhere. Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Richard P From clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:46:45 2008 From: clug@hidden (Ian Spray) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:46:58 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > > if the problems go away. > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > Oh. Pooh :( > Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's > behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before > iptables applies the rules? > Possibly - it depends on the firewall. I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this automatically ? It's always confused the pants off me (iptables, that is) so I've tended to stick with ipf/ipfilter. Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). I must admit that I've not really got any other ideas - telling you it appears fine on other systems isn't going to be a) news to you or b) all that helpful... Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) load that page ok for you ? I must admit that's all I've tried that URL with at the moment - no other reason to try other than reducing the amount of data that the site needs to serve to you in a rather "might help/can't hurt" sort of suggestion rather than anything concrete. TTFN, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From simon.andrews@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:49:18 2008 From: simon.andrews@hidden (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:49:02 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > >> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the discovery and it all goes downhill after that. You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc which might do the trick. Full gory details can be had at: http://www.netheaven.com/pmtu.html ...amongst other places. Simon. From sam.kuper@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:57:01 2008 From: sam.kuper@hidden (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:57:07 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220657u357158a4kde6e076daab73e50@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Richard > Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have > done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with > Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown > up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to > connect using standard commodity hardware. Please keep us (the list) posted. spk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/eec410f6/attachment.htm From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 15:59:03 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 15:59:21 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022135903.GO2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:46:45PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: > > Pooh :( I just whacked it down to 600 and there is still no difference. > I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to > ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this > automatically ? That's my impression, but I've not researched iptables much beyond how to let out the protocols I want. The commands that allow incoming packets only when they are related to established connections have always just worked for me (and they would be stateful, right?). > Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that > you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being > sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be > down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). Yes, I need to get inside the Speedtouch and see exactly what it is getting. > Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) > load that page ok for you ? No, wget and links behave just the same. Regards, Jeremy Henty From simon.andrews@hidden Wed Oct 22 16:01:18 2008 From: simon.andrews@hidden (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed Oct 22 16:01:02 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:49, Simon Andrews wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: >> >>> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' >> >> That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection >> still >> chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > > From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a > problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU > Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to > avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the > discovery and it all goes downhill after that. > > You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: > > echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). A better fix would be to allow those packets through so you can do the MTU negotiation. PMD is a desirable thing and your connection won't be as efficient if you just disable it. However if it's not your firewall which is blocking these packets you're stuffed and you'd just have to disable PMD. Simon. From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 16:25:47 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 16:26:02 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 03:01:18PM +0100, Simon Andrews wrote: >> You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: >> >> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Still no difference. > Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall > is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back > to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). All the dropped packet log entries have "PROTO=TCP", so they are not ICMP, right? My /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/* also reject source-routed packets and do not accept or send ICMP Redirects. Regards, Jeremy Henty From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 18:01:06 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 17:01:23 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221701.06536.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 15:46:22 Richard wrote: > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN > grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and > how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Say "hi" from me. From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 18:03:10 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 17:03:26 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb --16:52:07-- http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... And still waiting. From dom@hidden Wed Oct 22 18:23:26 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Wed Oct 22 17:23:38 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > --16:52:07-- > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' > Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 > Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... > > And still waiting. After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through just fine. From clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 17:34:12 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Wed Oct 22 17:33:09 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. > > Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't > support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and > white image instead of colour. > > I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them > on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec > Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. It seems to work OK. No black and white. The manual states the TV supports NTSC which seems to be v. similar to PAL60 (though not quite) according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are that bad! So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. From onepoint@hidden Wed Oct 22 18:06:45 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed Oct 22 18:07:02 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <20081022160645.GS2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 05:23:26PM +0200, Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > > After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through > just fine. I'm still getting next to nothing, followed by resets. Jeremy Henty From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 23:23:17 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:23:20 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like > Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to > tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are > that bad! > > So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty with a super-expensive fault! From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 23:27:27 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:27:29 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, and everybody got all the network traffic. It would work for only very short periods. I did manage to log in at one point to the access point as it had a default password, but was so flakey I couldn't get far enough to fix it, and friends told me to stop being a geek and put the laptop away :-) are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended up with your mac address? From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 23:30:28 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:30:30 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF9B74.1050403@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > Mark Roberts wrote: >> Longman wrote: >>> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >>> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >>> don't state the frequency. > > oops, sent from wrong email address.. retrying... am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug@hidden Wed Oct 22 23:41:24 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:41:26 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ anyone remember "invisible networks", who failed when ADSL came to the villages? ok, commercial, but a mesh of wifi. how about fon? there's some people providing that? maybe wimax will come soon? ok, maybe not! wife had an invite for minor event at Hotel Du Vin, went today to have a look, and they have quite good free wifi (just accept the T's and C's on their captive portal). Probably reachable from nearby locations as there was a good signal in their basement bar! a place next to Nandos at cattle market, forget the name, have free wifi - proudly announced on their door. From onepoint@hidden Thu Oct 23 00:51:39 2008 From: onepoint@hidden (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu Oct 23 00:51:49 2008 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20081022225139.GU2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:27:27PM +0100, Paul wrote: > I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed > to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, > and everybody got all the network traffic. Hmm, would that explain why just one website fails to download? > are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended > up with your mac address? They all have the right destination IP when they get to the PC. I don't what that says about what's arriving at the Speedtouch. Regards, Jeremy Henty From clug@hidden Thu Oct 23 10:53:07 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Thu Oct 23 10:51:48 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like >> Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to >> tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are >> that bad! >> >> So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. > > I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to > escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, > have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty > with a super-expensive fault! Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). From paul@hidden Thu Oct 23 11:00:06 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu Oct 23 11:00:11 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> On 22/10/08 22:41, Paul wrote: > how about fon? there's some people providing that? Yup, we're a FON wireless access point (CB24 6AB). Never been used by the public yet mind you. BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone updated recently - see http://cam.misc.org.uk/wifi and feel free to add any more if anyone knows any. -- Paul From dom@hidden Thu Oct 23 12:50:18 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Thu Oct 23 11:50:34 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> Message-ID: <200810231150.19072.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 11:00:06 Paul Oldham wrote: > BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone > updated recently Does anybody know if any of those listed are *not* currently up and running? E.g. the Elm Tree used to but has since changed hands. It'd be a good idea to have "current as of " on entries. From paul@hidden Thu Oct 23 18:01:08 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul) Date: Thu Oct 23 18:01:23 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV > licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when > Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it > took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't > want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that would pose a problem for us too! if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to avoid TV Licensing. From clug@hidden Thu Oct 23 18:13:00 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Thu Oct 23 18:13:18 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > would pose a problem for us too! > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > avoid TV Licensing. I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame you have to do this really. From paul@hidden Thu Oct 23 19:06:11 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul) Date: Thu Oct 23 19:06:23 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens as the "home address". http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html From dom@hidden Thu Oct 23 23:33:28 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Thu Oct 23 22:33:41 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 18:13:00 Longman wrote: > * Paul wrote: > > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > > would pose a problem for us too! > > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > > avoid TV Licensing. > > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. Having googled such exciting search strings as "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" and "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort of offence. I dunno, IANAL. From clug@hidden Fri Oct 24 10:40:51 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Fri Oct 24 10:40:59 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <49018A13.20903@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Having googled such exciting search strings as > "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" > and > "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" > there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name > and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort > of offence. I dunno, IANAL. OK so I find a mate that watches TV (and I'm not sure I know any!) and get them to buy it for me giving their real name and address. Thanks for the heads up on that one :-) From clug@hidden Fri Oct 24 11:23:09 2008 From: clug@hidden (Longman) Date: Fri Oct 24 11:23:14 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <490193FD.3060407@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV >> in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I >> need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame >> you have to do this really. > > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html Nice! :-) From ktabic@hidden Fri Oct 24 12:17:51 2008 From: ktabic@hidden (ktabic) Date: Fri Oct 24 13:05:09 2008 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <25842.194.176.105.1.1224847071.squirrel@home.ktabic.co.uk> > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html An even better one is 100 Temple Street, Bristol, BS1 6AB. That shows up as TV Licensing's address :). From drewfitzsimmons@hidden Sat Oct 25 15:47:37 2008 From: drewfitzsimmons@hidden (Drew Fitzsimmons) Date: Sat Oct 25 15:47:43 2008 Subject: samba via nfs = bad Message-ID: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used by all the other systems. All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data went away... I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it has been decided that the system should be a little more robust (always the way) Anyway it turns out the company do sell a dedicated server with redundancy but it costs about ?100k which is rather a large amount of money. The plan now is to implement something our in house. After about 10 mins of poking about on the system I showed my boss how it is possible to mount a share on an existing windows server. Then make the directory which the software expects to see a symbolic link to this smb mount allowing the data to be stored on an existing server (which has RAID etc.) The problem is that the other machines that mount this directory as an nfs share aren't able to see the samba share via the nfs mount (hope that makes sense) Obviously this is not the best way to do things but why can't they see the data in the smb share? is it because it's symbolic link or is it because it's going through an nfs share to get to a smb share? Has anyone got any suggestions as to what is the best way? The things I've thought of so far are: Mount the same samba share on all the 7 fedora machines. This might well be the simplest way. Set up a dedicated Linux server and change the nfs mounts to point to a directory on this machine. Also if they were to set up a dedicated server what sort of spec machine do think would be needed RAID type disk type etc. (I know this is dependent on amount of data and reads and writes etc) -- Drew Fitzsimmons From dom@hidden Sat Oct 25 20:50:17 2008 From: dom@hidden (Dom Latter) Date: Sat Oct 25 19:50:29 2008 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810251950.17207.dom@latter.org> On Saturday 25 October 2008 15:47:37 Drew Fitzsimmons wrote: > The things I've thought of so far are: For a "dedicated server" you could try a NAS box such as the Netgear ReadyNAS items. These are set up to do NFS out of the box, and also mirroring Raid if you slap another disk in. They run Linux so it's familir territory, but are already set up with what you need and have a point-and-drool web interface for configuration. http://brneurosci.org/readynas.html From paul@hidden Sun Oct 26 00:01:45 2008 From: paul@hidden (Paul Oldham) Date: Sun Oct 26 00:01:41 2008 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> On Sat, October 25, 2008 14:47, Drew Fitzsimmons said: > At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary > software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core > 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: > One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used > by all the other systems. > All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. > > Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data > went away... > > I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the > server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This > is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it > has been decided that the system should be a little more robust > (always the way) [...] Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough to do. -- Paul From paul-clug@hidden Sun Oct 26 00:21:53 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul) Date: Sun Oct 26 00:21:51 2008 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> Message-ID: <49039C01.5040703@mansfield.co.uk> Paul Oldham wrote: > Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in > the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the > drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough > to do. agreed, definitely the cheapest and quickest option. possibly better thing, a hardware raid card installation, two new drives to create a mirror, and copying files over would be the next best thing. BTW, in recent benchmarking, we found the Dell perc6 raid cards in raid5 gave massively higher performance than a cheap server with native sata - about four-fold improvement, using bonnie++ for testing, for reading and random I/O, and higher but not massively write speeds. oh, and of course, to take regular backups :-) and test them! From alastair@hidden Sun Oct 26 10:13:34 2008 From: alastair@hidden (Alastair Stevens) Date: Sun Oct 26 11:13:47 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > Ok I stand corrected! > Cheers > Ferg > > 2008/10/22 Ferg > >> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] >> *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. >> Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. >> > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack > of WiFi encryption is less problematic. > > Don't worry - I had to explain the same thing to my folks last year, when they freaked at the thought of doing online banking over an open wifi. So although folks don't always appreciate a detailed explanation of the 5-layer TCP/IP network model over breakfast, at least they have an inherent understanding that encryption is a *good thing*. If only the MOD/Government/NHS/etc etc would get this :-) AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081026/acbfb217/attachment.htm From paul-clug@hidden Sun Oct 26 21:39:24 2008 From: paul-clug@hidden (Paul M) Date: Sun Oct 26 22:39:20 2008 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4904E38C.40405@mansfield.co.uk> the biggest problems to my mind of open wifi are 1/ other users on the access point can probe your machine, e.g. if you set a windows firewall up wrongly it may consider the "lan" as trusted, even when it considers what's beyond the gateway as untrusted 2/ cookie sniffing allowing people to steal your login on many sites; at least google make it easy to switch over to using https for the entire email session and not just logging in. SSL can pose quite a burden on a web server so I understand why this is done. Before I use a wifi hotspot I always clear my cookies just in case, and ensure any thing on my machine which does automatic logins are disabled (skype, messengers, voip, etc). If I used wifi hotspots more than once in a blue moon, I'd create a separate login which was deliberately bare. From will.pink@hidden Mon Oct 27 10:30:24 2008 From: will.pink@hidden (william pink) Date: Mon Oct 27 11:30:32 2008 Subject: Fwd: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] [CLUG] Message-ID: <7891dd830810270330w7fcad196j6db4194adbfe35ca@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dan Kolb Date: Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:24 AM Subject: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] To: gllug@gllug.org.uk ----- Forwarded message from Alasdair G Kergon ----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UKUUG Linux Conference 2008 - Manchester Saturday 8th - Sunday 9th November http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This year's event consists of a twin-track conference over the weekend, preceded by a full-day Python Web Workshop on Friday 7th November. This year, we're offering a discounted conference rate of just 60 pounds for members of UK Linux User Groups provided you book by next Wednesday (29th October). The student rate is 20 pounds. (Separate fees apply for Friday's Python Web Workshop.) Please use the following URL to book online at this discounted rate or contact UKUUG during office hours on 01763 273 475 or office@ukuug.org. http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/bookinglug/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Accessibility and Advocacy * Continuity in development using external developers - John I Davies - iT4C * Marketing Open Source Software - Sandro Groganz - InitMarketing * Desktop Adapted for Dad - Adam Trickett Applications * Home Automation - Steven Goodwin * Ingres CAFE - John Smedley - Ingres Grids and Clusters * Distributed evolutionary algorithms with the Geneva library * Grid and Clouds in the LHC era - Dr. Ruediger Berlich - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * GridSolve: A nice tool for distributed computing - Marcus Hardt - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * Cross-Platform Virtual Machines - Paul Knowles - Transitive Kernel * Infrastructure for PCIe endpoint devices * Porting Linux to a new architecture - the right way - Arnd Bergmann - IBM Deutschland Research & Development * Run time power management - it's not just suspend and resume - Matthew Garrett - Red Hat * Supersweet 15 - tales of a filesystems in puberty - Christoph Hellwig - LST e.V. * A Whole Family of Penguins - Kyle McMartin - Red Hat Sysadmin * Organising sysadmin documentation - Jon Dowland - Newcastle University * Python and System Administration - John Pinner - Linux Emporium Web * An introduction to web application security flaws - Jake Edge - LWN.net * Lead into Gold: Catalyst refactoring, optimisation and testing - Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems Limited * Coding in Pyjamas: Apps for Desktop and the Web * FULL-DAY FRIDAY Pure Python Web Workshop: Pyjamas + JSONRPC + Django - Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Subject to change - check http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Event sponsored by: Novell Sun IBM Google Transitive InitMarketing | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Gllug mailing list - Gllug@gllug.org.uk http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081027/e3c773f5/attachment.htm From gareth.pullen@hidden Tue Oct 28 14:50:49 2008 From: gareth.pullen@hidden (Gareth Pullen) Date: Tue Oct 28 15:51:03 2008 Subject: Free CrossOver downloads... Message-ID: For anyone who hasn't seen the news, CrossOver are offering a free full download of their software (CrossOver Office and Games for Mac and Linux) for today (registration is open for today only, downloads are open for a few days, due to their servers dying under the load). Link: http://down.codeweavers.com/ Gareth From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 01:24:10 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (wawrzek at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:24:10 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333g5d89a60ah8ccfb8ac577b92da@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333k5c5fe63bu643d6c29f7f7cea6@mail.gmail.com> <1BA35008-CBED-4AF8-9BCD-9D6C8A620B8B@ytko.com> Message-ID: <20081001232410.GA9842@gmail.com> Hi, Anything new on website front? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From ejlilley at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 23:55:52 2008 From: ejlilley at gmail.com (Edward Lilley) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:55:52 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > Hi, > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > Wawrzek From ferg at scotgate.org Sat Oct 4 12:15:06 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 11:15:06 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Message-ID: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the link: http://scotgate.org. Cheers Ferg On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) > > http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ > > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > > > Wawrzek > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- http://scotgate.org AIM:fergycool skype:fergycool MSN:fergycool Climb up it, kayak down it + make sure it runs on GNU/Linux. "cease to exist, giving my goodbye, drive my car into the ocean, you think I'm dead, but i sail away, on a wave of mutilation!" From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Sat Oct 4 16:03:57 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:03:57 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> Message-ID: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that extensively. Ferg wrote: > In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only > 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general > rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the > link: > > http://scotgate.org. > > Cheers > Ferg > > On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > >> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) >> >> http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ >> >> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. >>> >>> http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek >>> >>> Wawrzek >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug at cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> >> From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 5 16:40:52 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:40:52 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E8D1F4.3090308@mansfield.co.uk> Richard wrote: > Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog > > Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , > but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that > extensively. hmm, you definitely haven't firewalled that off, I get a response when I ping localhost. I think you have a configuration error. when I go to that site, I get 404 not found! :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 9 11:20:35 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:20:35 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy the stuff separately later on? Haven't owned a console since the PS1 though the weather is so crappy I thought it might make a winter spent indoors more fun. From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 11:39:09 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:39:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: ....Snip... >Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? ...Snip... This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've come across (my partner recently got a 360). Ignore the "Bundled games" since it seems to vary from shop to shop, but apart from that it's pretty good. Gareth. From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 15 08:58:05 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:58:05 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Hi, Longman wrote: > OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I > impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for > ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has it already. Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. And not just through some hack. Sony added a menu item "Install Other OS" to make it easy and flag their support for it. Plus it has standard USB ports, so getting a keyboard and mouse connected it easy. Though I must admit, I've had my PS3 for almost a year, and haven't got round to putting Linux on it yet. Has anyone on the list tried it? Thinking about it, I've got quite a few gadgets around the house that could at least theoretically run Linux - and some of them do ;) Best regards, Mark. From dom at latter.org Fri Oct 10 09:30:51 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:30:51 +0200 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while > simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out > that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 15 09:44:00 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:44:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F59F40.6040108@zen.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while >> simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out >> that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. > > http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page I didn't know you could do that! Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) From wawrzek at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 11:58:45 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:58:45 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Dave Briggs wrote: > I've made a start: http://davedev.org/clug/ - using WordPress and > hacking a pre-existing theme. > What new about website? Do you need any help? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081010/156de6ac/attachment.htm From db at davepress.net Fri Oct 10 12:00:43 2008 From: db at davepress.net (Dave Briggs) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:00:43 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > What new about website? Do you need any help? Been a little tied up of late, but should have things finished off in the next couple of days. Help could come in the form of some new pictures to fill in some of the gaps, and maybe rewriting some of the text? Cheers -- Dave Briggs db at davepress.net | http://davepress.net | 07525 209589 (Mobile) From bnicolson at ippimail.com Fri Oct 10 16:05:19 2008 From: bnicolson at ippimail.com (bnicolson at ippimail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:05:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sound Converter Message-ID: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 LTS user.) -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From bnicolson at ippimail.com Fri Oct 10 16:22:16 2008 From: bnicolson at ippimail.com (bnicolson at ippimail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:22:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sound Converter In-Reply-To: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <53126.82.16.102.233.1223648536.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Ignore this. I've found Audacity and am happy now. I have sound! :?) Bev. > I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted > from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when > I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed > not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? > Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 > LTS user.) > > -- > Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! > 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 10 17:30:00 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:30:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48EF74F8.6000708@gasops.co.uk> * Gareth Pullen wrote: > This: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features > is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've Thanks :-) From dom at latter.org Fri Oct 10 21:07:20 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:07:20 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <200810102107.20873.dom@latter.org> Let's try again, shall we... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Date: Friday 10 October 2008 From: Dom Latter To: mark at taurine.org.uk On Wednesday 15 October 2008 09:44:00 Mark Roberts wrote: [Linux on xbox 360] > Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a No UK or EU laws broken, AFAIK. The DMCA is Evil and Stupid and if it applied to me I would find a way of breaking it (well, the bits that try to control what you do with your own posessions in the privacy of your own home) on principle. > warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) > and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using > an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. Indeed - are Sony going to recover some of the good-will they lost through the whole root-kit business? > But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) Especially if MS are basically subsidising the hardware (which was the case with the original Xbox, AFAIK). ------------------------------------------------------- From clug at dziewulski.com Sat Oct 11 19:27:57 2008 From: clug at dziewulski.com (Jan M. Dziewulski) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:27:57 +0100 Subject: CB2... Message-ID: I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy coming down there? -- Janek From hjenkins at uvic.ca Sat Oct 11 21:43:07 2008 From: hjenkins at uvic.ca (hjenkins) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CB2... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30375.142.104.193.193.1223754187.squirrel@wm3.uvic.ca> I'll try and make it. > I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy > coming > down there? > > -- > Janek > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 14 17:11:54 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:11:54 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard > disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has > it already. Apparently the Arcade version won't play xbox games (though not sure how bad a crime this really is). Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual don't state the frequency. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 16 11:04:25 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:04:25 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] Message-ID: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are customers of virgin/nthell/teleworst. -------- Original Message -------- If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the naughty list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, give you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. Well worth having stored for emergencies: news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Oct 16 11:20:10 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Chris Lindley) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Thanks for that! Coincidentally I had to reboot my cable modem this morning. First time for ages. It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the responsiveness of SLRN. Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:04, Paul M wrote: > possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are > customers > of virgin/nthell/teleworst. > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to > the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). > It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely > clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is > their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the > published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the > naughty > list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, > give > you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. > Well > worth having stored for emergencies: > > news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From onepoint at starurchin.org Thu Oct 16 11:54:31 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:54:31 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the > responsiveness of SLRN. How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's pretty up to date! http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 Jeremy Henty From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Oct 16 13:22:37 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:22:37 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <5304B580-4387-4714-AD6B-60AD2DCBAF27@scotgate.org> Excellent! Just installed SLRN and that brings back some memories. It's quick and easy to read. I may give returning to Pine a miss though! Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:54, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > >> What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the >> responsiveness of SLRN. > > How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's > pretty up to date! > > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul at the-hug.org Thu Oct 16 17:08:48 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:08:48 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48F75900.7020408@the-hug.org> On 16/10/08 10:20, Chris Lindley wrote: > It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, > with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current > now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? At my desk I use Thunderbird for news and mail (oh, and RSS via feed2imap but you can use that with any mail client - and I do). -- Paul From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 18:04:46 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:04:46 +0100 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? Message-ID: Afternoon all, I've been looking for a little while for an email client which will store the emails locally, encrypted, preferably not using the swap space (although I've yet to see my Gentoo touch the swap space, even when compiling). I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, but it seems like a lot of hassle... So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? Incidentally, yes, I know GMail stores the mail unencrypted anyway, but that's not the point! Gareth. From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 16 22:19:40 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:19:40 +0200 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 16 October 2008 18:04:46 Gareth Pullen wrote: > I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the > archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, > but it seems like a lot of hassle... You will have to do *something* (like enter a password), won't you? > So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? How about: Create an encrypted filesystem: http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. Then make Thunderbird store its mail there. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Oct 17 00:37:54 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:37:54 +0100 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> References: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F7C242.2080804@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Create an encrypted filesystem: > http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html > > You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. many linuxes allow you to create an encrypted file system during install phase (might be hidden in advanced disk options). suse's had it since, er 10.0, and I think umbongo^Wubuntu has had it for a while. one thing to bear in mind if DIY, to make sure if you enter the wrong passphrase/key that you don't blindly force mount + fsck - good idea to store a secure hash of the passphrase/key so you know if it's been entered wrongly! From clug at gasops.co.uk Mon Oct 20 16:08:09 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:08:09 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail Message-ID: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options do I have available to me? I want to basically have "fetchmail -d 60" running for multiple people (plus applicable .fetchmailrc files). One way of doing it is not to use the -d option at all and just have fetchmail scripts in people's home directory and call the script from cron. This is what I'm currently doing though it's not elegant. My main concern is not actually starting fetchmail running but how to make sure it is constantly running because in the past it's just stopped in the background and then I've had to su to a persons account to kill it and put it in the background again. From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Oct 20 16:22:58 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:22:58 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: Hi, My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the computer home. I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to charity). Now problems: I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this week or Mon.,Tues. next one. I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good point. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/ad3137c4/attachment-0001.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Oct 20 17:14:01 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:14:01 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to time, so, instead.... I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy for a long time. From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Mon Oct 20 17:28:01 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:28:01 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the > computer home. > I just set up Ubuntu Server on a machine with that spec; it's working very nicely. > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a bike. > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > If I'm storing one, I'd be happy to install Ubuntu or Debian on it. > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good > point. > People on Freecycle would snap these up in a day or less, but some of them would probably end up on eBay shortly afterwards (it's an easy profit, right?). It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . Further options include: - CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test server!). - Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . All best, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/d432dada/attachment-0002.htm From panupelkonen at luukku.com Mon Oct 20 17:38:37 2008 From: panupelkonen at luukku.com (Panu Pelkonen) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:38:37 +0300 (EEST) Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: <1224517117433.panupelkonen.48850.E9EVwMsyKRMjxQCk_4L5nQ@luukku.com> I don't live in Cambridge anymore, so I can't really take part in any way. But this type of free hardware would nice for getting one's feet wet in parallel computing - ie. taking a few similar computers and trying out a customised distro such as http://pareto.uab.es/mcreel/PelicanHPC/ or http://clusterknoppix.sw.be/about.htm It would be a nice school project, or even a LUG project.. Panu Wawrzyniec NiewodniczaDski kirjoitti 20.10.2008 kello 17:22: > Hi, > > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The > computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one > of the > computer home. > > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > Now problems: > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we > need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this > week or > Mon.,Tues. next one. > > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned > people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might > be a good > point. > > > > > -- > Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN > Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com > PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name > MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl ................................................................... Luukku Plus paketilla p??set eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista. Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat el?m??si. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku From dom at latter.org Mon Oct 20 21:35:48 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:35:48 +0200 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > do I have available to me? What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. Anyway, you can set up users to have no shell access by changing /etc/passwd appropriately: http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.linux.security/2002-10/5876.html and subsequent posts. From wawrzek at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 00:18:40 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:18:40 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 04:28:01PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be > made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > It's not necessary. We can grab them for free. If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we give it for free we don't need to do this. [...] > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the > botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a > bike. CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). [...] > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Not bad idea. > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) > Further options include: > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > server!). I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store others. And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea of creating some new content for new website. We should grab computers rather promptly and we can decided what to do with them. > ? Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . > I need to give this link to our sys admin. BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From tomharling at aol.com Tue Oct 21 01:16:41 2008 From: tomharling at aol.com (Tom Harling) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:16:41 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? http://folding.stanford.edu/ From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 21 10:57:42 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:57:42 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FD9986.3010102@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options >> do I have available to me? > > What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more > appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. > I have a remote pop3 server. It doesn't have much disk space (1.6GB). Some people would like to have imap so they can access their box from more than one location, and some accounts need accessing from more than one location at the same time. I've setup an imap box on our lan and use fetchmail to deliver to procmail then I have a procmail recipe to deliver the mail as Maildir. It's also faster for people (or is that a false assumption?) as well as having plentiful HD capacity. My only gripe is that running fetchmail in deamon mode for each user that wants imap access is a little bit hacky since fetchmail never appears to be 100% reliable and sometimes you can find it just doing 'funny stuff' in the background (which then means you need to write a script to check it's running etc). So I've opted to just use a bash script which uses fetchmail (and creates a lock file) and run that from cron, giving a bit more reliability. Obviously I'm logging at various levels to be sure I don't lose mail :-) An alternative would've been to have exim deliver directly to Maildir remotely but since I only want Maildir for some accounts and mbox for others is this possible using exim? Also I could put a new harddisk in the remote box (and it does use LVM so shouldn't be too tricky other than a car journey) but on the LAN we have gigabit whereas we only have a 2M circuit for net access. Suggestions welcome :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 21 11:02:12 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:02:12 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FD9A94.8000905@gasops.co.uk> * Paul M wrote: > Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > > I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to > time, so, instead.... > > I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then > have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to > /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. > > > I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy > for a long time. > > I have a fetchmail script like this: if [ -f /tmp/.xyzfetchmail.lock ] ; then echo 'Script is still running' else echo 1 > /tmp/.zyzfetchmail.lock fetchmail -s --sslproto ssl123 rm -f /tmp/.xyz.fetchmail.lock fi Then execute it from cron. There is an appropriate .fetchmailrc file. This is done for each user (using different lock files). This gives 'fetchmail -d' behaviour. From dom at latter.org Tue Oct 21 11:27:16 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:27:16 +0200 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> Message-ID: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: > "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding at home etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 11:50:44 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:50:44 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Hi, There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get higher in the ranks: Check out this thread on the Folding forums: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1560 As somebody who really loves messing with homebuilt hardware (and once had their home workstation running on a RAID10 * 9 disc array for the laugh!) I can't say I really disapprove! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 10:27, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: >> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux >> and >> redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? > > If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be > a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding at home > etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Tue Oct 21 15:34:41 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:34:41 +0200 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > Hi, > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > higher in the ranks: Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 15:53:14 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:53:14 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Hi, >> >> There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole >> point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get >> higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From wawrzek at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 15:55:45 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:55:45 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > > Hi, > > > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/efd36bc2/attachment-0002.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Tue Oct 21 16:25:53 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:25:53 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per year on electricity! CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the rest of the chip being power hungry!). Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 of energy. * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Tue Oct 21 18:00:02 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:00:02 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/21 Paul M > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy consumption substantially. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/9ab68a3e/attachment-0002.htm From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Tue Oct 21 18:11:23 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:11:23 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Wawrzyniec, 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we > give it for free we don't need > to do this. Fair enough. > CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). > Okay, that's walking distance from me, even carrying a PC. > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > the > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > etc. > > Not bad idea. > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? Feedback, please! > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > > > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would > prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) I'm really short on time. I don't mind installing Debian/Ubuntu on a machine that's in my flat because I can get on with other things while it's running and I'm familiar with the install routines to won't have to spend time researching the install. I appreciate that it would be a nice social event to get a group of us together to install linuxes on these boxes, but I myself don't have time to do that. If anyone else can (and has space for it), then go for it. > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I > would > > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; > I'd > > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > > server!). > > I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store > others. > And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea > of creating some new content for new website. I live in a pretty small flat, and I'm afraid I don't really have room for more than one extra PC. I don't mind writing a few quick words about what I decide to do with it (even if it's just putting Ubuntu on it and selling it on eBay to raise funds for CLUG/FSF/etc. > We should grab computers rather promptly What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > and we can decided what to do > with them. I get the feeling that more people than just me and Wawrzyniec are going to need to be involved if we're going to be able to store enough of these to make a group decision worthwhile. > BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. I probably won't have space to put one of those, unless it's *very* temporary. Even then, it would have to be just one. If I were to end up keeping the PC that goes to my flat (rather than selling it for charity as above, etc) I'd run it headless; if I were to sell it, I could sell it with a VDU. Sorry I can't do more, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/3ea3b507/attachment-0002.htm From tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk Tue Oct 21 18:21:17 2008 From: tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:21:17 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > > the > > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > > etc. > > > > Not bad idea. > > > > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? > Feedback, please! Sounds fine to me. From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 18:27:10 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:10 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> Message-ID: That sounds a plan to me. Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 17:21, Tom Ellis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: >>>> It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the >>>> proceeds to >>> the >>>> Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public >>>> Interest, >>> etc. >>> >>> Not bad idea. >>> >> >> Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of >> the group? >> Feedback, please! > > Sounds fine to me. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From mark_w at techie.com Tue Oct 21 23:56:33 2008 From: mark_w at techie.com (Mark Wyatt) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:56:33 +0000 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - Message-ID: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > Particularly on one those old Pentium D's which always were rather inefficient in power used per unit of computation. > Ferg wrote: > > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly > detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to > give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p > > My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ > (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider > switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones > that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of > energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole > motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the > rest of the chip being power hungry!). > > Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I > have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 > of energy. > > > > * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 > > ------------------------------ Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). If you've got enough ram, the disk drives often don't need to be active all that much in a low traffic application, so they can end up costing very little power. Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the next revision they do something more appropriate. In the meantime, in a similar role at home I have a Pentium 2140 which, in practice, draws 40 Watts from the wall and which has way more performance than an atom (or the application needs, to be frank). I'd have liked to have looked at the new Via nano stuff, but it wasn't available at the time. Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. -- See Exclusive Video: Hollywood Life's 5th Annual Style Awards http://www.hollywoodlife.net/Awards.aspx?AwardsID=style2008 From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 22 01:02:27 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:02:27 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break > my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual > don't state the frequency. Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and white image instead of colour. I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. From wawrzek at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 01:22:18 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:22:18 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021232211.GA7471@gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: Hi Sam and others, > What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > Sorry I cannot. I also would like to dispatch all machine at once. If we don't find plan to use them for 'greater good' I'll take one and pass to you. Generally I think we don't have enough time to organize install part etc. We can pass them to SPI or similar organization but it also can be done by CCDC, so I don't see the point to bother you (or anybody else). So question to all of you. Do you need such computer to anything related to FOSS? It don't have to be any big idea. I.e. I need such computer to test new distributions is very good reason ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From wawrzek at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 01:25:13 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:25:13 +0100 Subject: Eco Music Player Message-ID: <20081021232511.GA7971@gmail.com> Hi, I think it's great idea and it support OGG! http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/trevor-baylis-brands/eco-media-player-revolution/ Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 09:56:02 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 08:56:02 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FEDC92.9040205@mansfield.co.uk> Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/21 Paul M > > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > > Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to > keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand > access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and > keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy > consumption substantially. good point, but I am also using it as a print server, mail server, http proxy cache (ginormous squid spool), general linux toolbox, web page testing, VPN termination, mp3 and media server (chipped xbox is client) and more besides... so, it'd spend about 20 hours awake anyway. Oh, and during one thing I've taken a look at and failed, perhaps I'd need a custom kernel, is getting power saving modes working - I can't get the clock speed to dynamically change. I think but without investigating further that the Athlon 32 doesn't offer much in this respect. My core1 Sony laptop will drop its CPU speed by half, and $JOB's core2duo laptop will switch each core separately to half speed too. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 10:01:31 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:01:31 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 10:15:09 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:15:09 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - In-Reply-To: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <48FEE10D.6090102@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Wyatt wrote: > Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more > like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little > as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). d'oh, when I originally worked it out more roughly, I got the right answer, didn't have enough caffeine! I must have been thinking of the total power consumed by the system before I started underclocking! > Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it > is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular > pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the > next revision they do something more appropriate. the "poulsbo" chipset is said to be much better, not entirely sure why it's not been widely adopted. perhaps because existing PC and laptop makers didn't want to produce a completely new system design? http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3276&p=16 > Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly > helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look > particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. I've an APC Smart-UPS SC1500, load is 18% (270VA), current measured externally is 1.5A (~350VA), so, I guess I am losing about 80VA. Not sure of the power factor, but worst case is I am losing 80W. Not so good :-( I get about one mains drop out a month typically averaging up to 20s, and it doesn't return cleanly which is the big problem, hence why I bought a UPS. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 12:57:29 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:57:29 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? Message-ID: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any clues about debugging iptables LOG output? If you want more details... My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's really simple and it's been configured that way for years. I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, links or wget. The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with the problem (but again I could be wrong). I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. Any ideas? TIA, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 13:02:44 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:02:44 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Jeremy Henty wrote: > Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at > > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > > the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall > log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any > clues about debugging iptables LOG output? > > If you want more details... > > My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and > ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's > really simple and it's been configured that way for years. > > I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, > links or wget. > > The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a > redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). > > I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the > previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with > the problem (but again I could be wrong). > > I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. > > Any ideas? > > TIA, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > A wild stab in the dark here tho.... I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin defaulted to a value too high. The result would be that some websites would not load at all. Richard P From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 13:32:30 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:32:30 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > defaulted to a value too high. Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: =>ip iflist Interface GRP MTU ... 0 loop 1 1500 ... 1 eth0 2 1500 ... 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... and the OS itself: # ip link show 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? Regards, Jeremy Henty From ferg at scotgate.org Wed Oct 22 13:45:24 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:45:24 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time there! Cheers Ferg *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > > Regards, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk Wed Oct 22 13:53:47 2008 From: tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:53:47 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081022115347.GA4960@weber> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45:24PM +0100, Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* Why is lack of encryption a problem? Your bank account will use SSL. Tom From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Wed Oct 22 13:53:50 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:53:50 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/1132a543/attachment-0002.htm From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 13:56:11 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:56:11 +0200 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221356.11972.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 15:55:45 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) People tend to only watch one TV for a few hours at a time, not two or more 24/7! My point (if I need to make it clear) being that using old Pentiums purely for distributed scientific computation is a very poor use of energy when a collection of modern chips in a cluster or super computer would do much more per kWh. (At least at first glance; what happens when you factor in the cost of manufacture, I don't know). From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 14:01:55 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:01:55 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810221401.55907.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 13:45:24 Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! Ah, but the Kingston has good real ale, and a couple of free-to-use computers so you don't even have to take your own. From ferg at scotgate.org Wed Oct 22 14:17:19 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:17:19 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Ok I stand corrected! Cheers Ferg On Oct22,2008, at 12:53, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* > [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the > lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/8f4922ff/attachment-0002.htm From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 14:22:47 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:22:47 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can can experiment and go wild without boundaries. I dont mean wifi as-in 'Free Internet' .. I mean it as 'Free Network' Richard P Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! > > Cheers > Ferg > > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: >> >>> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >>> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >>> defaulted to a value too high. >> >> Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: >> >> =>ip iflist >> Interface GRP MTU ... >> 0 loop 1 1500 ... >> 1 eth0 2 1500 ... >> 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... >> >> and the OS itself: >> >> # ip link show >> 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... >> 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... >> 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... >> 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... >> >> An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeremy Henty >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug at cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 15:13:30 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:13:30 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for > Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can > can experiment and go wild without boundaries. Have a look at this: http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ From clug at minimal.cx Wed Oct 22 15:16:01 2008 From: clug at minimal.cx (Ian Spray) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:16:01 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:32:30PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > > > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > > defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > No, I think that supports the theory - you are trying to talk on your LAN with 1500 byte packets, but anything leaving your router for the rest of the world via PPPoA maxes out at 1456, and so will fragment on anythign larger. > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > For Ethernet, yes, but ADSL isn't Ethernet (and VPN's also fall into the 'not-Ethernet' category as the encryption headers use up packet space before you get to the payload). Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see if the problems go away. HTH, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 15:37:48 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:37:48 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > if the problems go away. That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before iptables applies the rules? Regards, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 15:46:22 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:46:22 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. >> > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > Thanks Dom, The point that scared me was ---- SNIP ---- Get Matrix Broadband Find it on the Matrix The broadband service that you can use throughout the City. Get an ADSL account with the Matrix and we provide high quality broadband that is at the very cutting edge of new technology. You can use your account anywhere there is coverage, and there is no extra cost for roaming around town.' -- END SNIP -- but there is the 'Free' part of it.... so I'll let that slide. The main idea is that the network is not controlled by any single entity, secondly that all systems are community based. For example a Community in Cambourne (of lets say 10 people) do a long distance link to next community.. in the end there is a mess of star topology networks spreading everywhere. Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Richard P From clug at minimal.cx Wed Oct 22 15:46:45 2008 From: clug at minimal.cx (Ian Spray) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:46:45 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > > if the problems go away. > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > Oh. Pooh :( > Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's > behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before > iptables applies the rules? > Possibly - it depends on the firewall. I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this automatically ? It's always confused the pants off me (iptables, that is) so I've tended to stick with ipf/ipfilter. Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). I must admit that I've not really got any other ideas - telling you it appears fine on other systems isn't going to be a) news to you or b) all that helpful... Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) load that page ok for you ? I must admit that's all I've tried that URL with at the moment - no other reason to try other than reducing the amount of data that the site needs to serve to you in a rather "might help/can't hurt" sort of suggestion rather than anything concrete. TTFN, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 15:49:18 2008 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:49:18 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > >> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the discovery and it all goes downhill after that. You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc which might do the trick. Full gory details can be had at: http://www.netheaven.com/pmtu.html ...amongst other places. Simon. From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Wed Oct 22 15:57:01 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:57:01 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220657u357158a4kde6e076daab73e50@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Richard > Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have > done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with > Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown > up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to > connect using standard commodity hardware. Please keep us (the list) posted. spk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/eec410f6/attachment-0002.htm From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 15:59:03 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:59:03 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022135903.GO2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:46:45PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: > > Pooh :( I just whacked it down to 600 and there is still no difference. > I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to > ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this > automatically ? That's my impression, but I've not researched iptables much beyond how to let out the protocols I want. The commands that allow incoming packets only when they are related to established connections have always just worked for me (and they would be stateful, right?). > Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that > you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being > sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be > down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). Yes, I need to get inside the Speedtouch and see exactly what it is getting. > Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) > load that page ok for you ? No, wget and links behave just the same. Regards, Jeremy Henty From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 16:01:18 2008 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:01:18 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:49, Simon Andrews wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: >> >>> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' >> >> That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection >> still >> chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > > From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a > problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU > Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to > avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the > discovery and it all goes downhill after that. > > You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: > > echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). A better fix would be to allow those packets through so you can do the MTU negotiation. PMD is a desirable thing and your connection won't be as efficient if you just disable it. However if it's not your firewall which is blocking these packets you're stuffed and you'd just have to disable PMD. Simon. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 16:25:47 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:25:47 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 03:01:18PM +0100, Simon Andrews wrote: >> You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: >> >> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Still no difference. > Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall > is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back > to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). All the dropped packet log entries have "PROTO=TCP", so they are not ICMP, right? My /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/* also reject source-routed packets and do not accept or send ICMP Redirects. Regards, Jeremy Henty From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:01:06 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:01:06 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221701.06536.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 15:46:22 Richard wrote: > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN > grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and > how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Say "hi" from me. From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:03:10 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:03:10 +0200 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb --16:52:07-- http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... And still waiting. From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:23:26 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:23:26 +0200 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > --16:52:07-- > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' > Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 > Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... > > And still waiting. After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through just fine. From clug at gasops.co.uk Wed Oct 22 17:34:12 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:34:12 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. > > Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't > support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and > white image instead of colour. > > I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them > on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec > Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. It seems to work OK. No black and white. The manual states the TV supports NTSC which seems to be v. similar to PAL60 (though not quite) according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are that bad! So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 18:06:45 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:06:45 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <20081022160645.GS2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 05:23:26PM +0200, Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > > After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through > just fine. I'm still getting next to nothing, followed by resets. Jeremy Henty From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:23:17 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:23:17 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like > Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to > tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are > that bad! > > So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty with a super-expensive fault! From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:27:27 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:27:27 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, and everybody got all the network traffic. It would work for only very short periods. I did manage to log in at one point to the access point as it had a default password, but was so flakey I couldn't get far enough to fix it, and friends told me to stop being a geek and put the laptop away :-) are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended up with your mac address? From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:30:28 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:30:28 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF9B74.1050403@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > Mark Roberts wrote: >> Longman wrote: >>> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >>> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >>> don't state the frequency. > > oops, sent from wrong email address.. retrying... am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:41:24 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:41:24 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ anyone remember "invisible networks", who failed when ADSL came to the villages? ok, commercial, but a mesh of wifi. how about fon? there's some people providing that? maybe wimax will come soon? ok, maybe not! wife had an invite for minor event at Hotel Du Vin, went today to have a look, and they have quite good free wifi (just accept the T's and C's on their captive portal). Probably reachable from nearby locations as there was a good signal in their basement bar! a place next to Nandos at cattle market, forget the name, have free wifi - proudly announced on their door. From onepoint at starurchin.org Thu Oct 23 00:51:39 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:51:39 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20081022225139.GU2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:27:27PM +0100, Paul wrote: > I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed > to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, > and everybody got all the network traffic. Hmm, would that explain why just one website fails to download? > are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended > up with your mac address? They all have the right destination IP when they get to the PC. I don't what that says about what's arriving at the Speedtouch. Regards, Jeremy Henty From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 23 10:53:07 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:53:07 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like >> Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to >> tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are >> that bad! >> >> So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. > > I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to > escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, > have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty > with a super-expensive fault! Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). From paul at the-hug.org Thu Oct 23 11:00:06 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> On 22/10/08 22:41, Paul wrote: > how about fon? there's some people providing that? Yup, we're a FON wireless access point (CB24 6AB). Never been used by the public yet mind you. BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone updated recently - see http://cam.misc.org.uk/wifi and feel free to add any more if anyone knows any. -- Paul From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 23 11:50:18 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:50:18 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> Message-ID: <200810231150.19072.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 11:00:06 Paul Oldham wrote: > BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone > updated recently Does anybody know if any of those listed are *not* currently up and running? E.g. the Elm Tree used to but has since changed hands. It'd be a good idea to have "current as of " on entries. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 23 18:01:08 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:01:08 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV > licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when > Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it > took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't > want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that would pose a problem for us too! if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to avoid TV Licensing. From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 23 18:13:00 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:13:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > would pose a problem for us too! > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > avoid TV Licensing. I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame you have to do this really. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 23 19:06:11 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:06:11 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens as the "home address". http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 23 22:33:28 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:33:28 +0200 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 18:13:00 Longman wrote: > * Paul wrote: > > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > > would pose a problem for us too! > > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > > avoid TV Licensing. > > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. Having googled such exciting search strings as "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" and "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort of offence. I dunno, IANAL. From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 24 10:40:51 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:40:51 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <49018A13.20903@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Having googled such exciting search strings as > "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" > and > "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" > there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name > and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort > of offence. I dunno, IANAL. OK so I find a mate that watches TV (and I'm not sure I know any!) and get them to buy it for me giving their real name and address. Thanks for the heads up on that one :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 24 11:23:09 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:23:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <490193FD.3060407@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV >> in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I >> need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame >> you have to do this really. > > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html Nice! :-) From ktabic at ktabic.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:17:51 2008 From: ktabic at ktabic.co.uk (ktabic) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:17:51 -0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <25842.194.176.105.1.1224847071.squirrel@home.ktabic.co.uk> > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html An even better one is 100 Temple Street, Bristol, BS1 6AB. That shows up as TV Licensing's address :). From drewfitzsimmons at gmail.com Sat Oct 25 15:47:37 2008 From: drewfitzsimmons at gmail.com (Drew Fitzsimmons) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:47:37 +0100 Subject: samba via nfs = bad Message-ID: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used by all the other systems. All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data went away... I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it has been decided that the system should be a little more robust (always the way) Anyway it turns out the company do sell a dedicated server with redundancy but it costs about ?100k which is rather a large amount of money. The plan now is to implement something our in house. After about 10 mins of poking about on the system I showed my boss how it is possible to mount a share on an existing windows server. Then make the directory which the software expects to see a symbolic link to this smb mount allowing the data to be stored on an existing server (which has RAID etc.) The problem is that the other machines that mount this directory as an nfs share aren't able to see the samba share via the nfs mount (hope that makes sense) Obviously this is not the best way to do things but why can't they see the data in the smb share? is it because it's symbolic link or is it because it's going through an nfs share to get to a smb share? Has anyone got any suggestions as to what is the best way? The things I've thought of so far are: Mount the same samba share on all the 7 fedora machines. This might well be the simplest way. Set up a dedicated Linux server and change the nfs mounts to point to a directory on this machine. Also if they were to set up a dedicated server what sort of spec machine do think would be needed RAID type disk type etc. (I know this is dependent on amount of data and reads and writes etc) -- Drew Fitzsimmons From dom at latter.org Sat Oct 25 19:50:17 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:50:17 +0200 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810251950.17207.dom@latter.org> On Saturday 25 October 2008 15:47:37 Drew Fitzsimmons wrote: > The things I've thought of so far are: For a "dedicated server" you could try a NAS box such as the Netgear ReadyNAS items. These are set up to do NFS out of the box, and also mirroring Raid if you slap another disk in. They run Linux so it's familir territory, but are already set up with what you need and have a point-and-drool web interface for configuration. http://brneurosci.org/readynas.html From paul at the-hug.org Sun Oct 26 00:01:45 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:01:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> On Sat, October 25, 2008 14:47, Drew Fitzsimmons said: > At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary > software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core > 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: > One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used > by all the other systems. > All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. > > Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data > went away... > > I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the > server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This > is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it > has been decided that the system should be a little more robust > (always the way) [...] Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough to do. -- Paul From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 26 00:21:53 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:21:53 +0100 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> Message-ID: <49039C01.5040703@mansfield.co.uk> Paul Oldham wrote: > Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in > the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the > drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough > to do. agreed, definitely the cheapest and quickest option. possibly better thing, a hardware raid card installation, two new drives to create a mirror, and copying files over would be the next best thing. BTW, in recent benchmarking, we found the Dell perc6 raid cards in raid5 gave massively higher performance than a cheap server with native sata - about four-fold improvement, using bonnie++ for testing, for reading and random I/O, and higher but not massively write speeds. oh, and of course, to take regular backups :-) and test them! From alastair at altrux.me.uk Sun Oct 26 11:13:34 2008 From: alastair at altrux.me.uk (Alastair Stevens) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:13:34 +0000 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > Ok I stand corrected! > Cheers > Ferg > > 2008/10/22 Ferg > >> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] >> *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. >> Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. >> > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack > of WiFi encryption is less problematic. > > Don't worry - I had to explain the same thing to my folks last year, when they freaked at the thought of doing online banking over an open wifi. So although folks don't always appreciate a detailed explanation of the 5-layer TCP/IP network model over breakfast, at least they have an inherent understanding that encryption is a *good thing*. If only the MOD/Government/NHS/etc etc would get this :-) AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081026/acbfb217/attachment-0001.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 26 22:39:24 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:24 +0000 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4904E38C.40405@mansfield.co.uk> the biggest problems to my mind of open wifi are 1/ other users on the access point can probe your machine, e.g. if you set a windows firewall up wrongly it may consider the "lan" as trusted, even when it considers what's beyond the gateway as untrusted 2/ cookie sniffing allowing people to steal your login on many sites; at least google make it easy to switch over to using https for the entire email session and not just logging in. SSL can pose quite a burden on a web server so I understand why this is done. Before I use a wifi hotspot I always clear my cookies just in case, and ensure any thing on my machine which does automatic logins are disabled (skype, messengers, voip, etc). If I used wifi hotspots more than once in a blue moon, I'd create a separate login which was deliberately bare. From will.pink at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 11:30:24 2008 From: will.pink at gmail.com (william pink) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:30:24 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] [CLUG] Message-ID: <7891dd830810270330w7fcad196j6db4194adbfe35ca@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dan Kolb Date: Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:24 AM Subject: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] To: gllug at gllug.org.uk ----- Forwarded message from Alasdair G Kergon ----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UKUUG Linux Conference 2008 - Manchester Saturday 8th - Sunday 9th November http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This year's event consists of a twin-track conference over the weekend, preceded by a full-day Python Web Workshop on Friday 7th November. This year, we're offering a discounted conference rate of just 60 pounds for members of UK Linux User Groups provided you book by next Wednesday (29th October). The student rate is 20 pounds. (Separate fees apply for Friday's Python Web Workshop.) Please use the following URL to book online at this discounted rate or contact UKUUG during office hours on 01763 273 475 or office at ukuug.org. http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/bookinglug/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Accessibility and Advocacy * Continuity in development using external developers - John I Davies - iT4C * Marketing Open Source Software - Sandro Groganz - InitMarketing * Desktop Adapted for Dad - Adam Trickett Applications * Home Automation - Steven Goodwin * Ingres CAFE - John Smedley - Ingres Grids and Clusters * Distributed evolutionary algorithms with the Geneva library * Grid and Clouds in the LHC era - Dr. Ruediger Berlich - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * GridSolve: A nice tool for distributed computing - Marcus Hardt - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * Cross-Platform Virtual Machines - Paul Knowles - Transitive Kernel * Infrastructure for PCIe endpoint devices * Porting Linux to a new architecture - the right way - Arnd Bergmann - IBM Deutschland Research & Development * Run time power management - it's not just suspend and resume - Matthew Garrett - Red Hat * Supersweet 15 - tales of a filesystems in puberty - Christoph Hellwig - LST e.V. * A Whole Family of Penguins - Kyle McMartin - Red Hat Sysadmin * Organising sysadmin documentation - Jon Dowland - Newcastle University * Python and System Administration - John Pinner - Linux Emporium Web * An introduction to web application security flaws - Jake Edge - LWN.net * Lead into Gold: Catalyst refactoring, optimisation and testing - Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems Limited * Coding in Pyjamas: Apps for Desktop and the Web * FULL-DAY FRIDAY Pure Python Web Workshop: Pyjamas + JSONRPC + Django - Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Subject to change - check http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Event sponsored by: Novell Sun IBM Google Transitive InitMarketing | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Gllug mailing list - Gllug at gllug.org.uk http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081027/e3c773f5/attachment-0001.htm From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Tue Oct 28 15:50:49 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:50:49 +0000 Subject: Free CrossOver downloads... Message-ID: For anyone who hasn't seen the news, CrossOver are offering a free full download of their software (CrossOver Office and Games for Mac and Linux) for today (registration is open for today only, downloads are open for a few days, due to their servers dying under the load). Link: http://down.codeweavers.com/ Gareth From wawrzek at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 01:24:10 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (wawrzek at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:24:10 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333g5d89a60ah8ccfb8ac577b92da@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450809240333k5c5fe63bu643d6c29f7f7cea6@mail.gmail.com> <1BA35008-CBED-4AF8-9BCD-9D6C8A620B8B@ytko.com> Message-ID: <20081001232410.GA9842@gmail.com> Hi, Anything new on website front? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From ejlilley at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 23:55:52 2008 From: ejlilley at gmail.com (Edward Lilley) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:55:52 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > Hi, > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > Wawrzek From ferg at scotgate.org Sat Oct 4 12:15:06 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 11:15:06 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> Message-ID: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the link: http://scotgate.org. Cheers Ferg On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) > > http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ > > On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. > > > > http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek > > > > Wawrzek > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- http://scotgate.org AIM:fergycool skype:fergycool MSN:fergycool Climb up it, kayak down it + make sure it runs on GNU/Linux. "cease to exist, giving my goodbye, drive my car into the ocean, you think I'm dead, but i sail away, on a wave of mutilation!" From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Sat Oct 4 16:03:57 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:03:57 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> Message-ID: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that extensively. Ferg wrote: > In that case, I also don't post on the list much, and my blog is only > 30% Linux related (the rest being OS X, Symbian or just general > rubbish!). But if you want to add my blog to the planet, here's the > link: > > http://scotgate.org. > > Cheers > Ferg > > On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 22:55 +0100, Edward Lilley wrote: > >> Ok, I don't post much on the mailing list, but meh :-) >> >> http://blog.ugnus.uk.eu.org/ >> >> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 11:01 +0100, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Please reply to this thread if you interested in adding your blog to the planet. >>> >>> http://larryn.blogspot.com - Wawrzek >>> >>> Wawrzek >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug at cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> >> From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 5 16:40:52 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:40:52 +0100 Subject: Blogs In-Reply-To: <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> References: <1222984552.14993.0.camel@delta.ugnus.uk.eu.org> <1223115306.22939.3.camel@scotgate> <48E777CD.7040506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E8D1F4.3090308@mansfield.co.uk> Richard wrote: > Feeling left out now... I dont have a blog > > Oh yes, I have a life though :-) thats at http://localhost/life.html , > but I doubt that URL will work from the internet, I have firewalled that > extensively. hmm, you definitely haven't firewalled that off, I get a response when I ping localhost. I think you have a configuration error. when I go to that site, I get 404 not found! :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 9 11:20:35 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:20:35 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy the stuff separately later on? Haven't owned a console since the PS1 though the weather is so crappy I thought it might make a winter spent indoors more fun. From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 11:39:09 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:39:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: ....Snip... >Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? ...Snip... This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've come across (my partner recently got a 360). Ignore the "Bundled games" since it seems to vary from shop to shop, but apart from that it's pretty good. Gareth. From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 15 08:58:05 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:58:05 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Hi, Longman wrote: > OK so Sainsbury's offer of an Xbox for ?99.97 was too much for me and I > impulse bought one last night ( I mean even Amazon are selling them for > ?129.99! ). Question I have ? and I'm sure somebody here will know the > answer! ;-) ? is what do I lose out on from not getting the premium > version (which was out of stock, they had sold three that day and the > offer expires Sunday with only one more delivery until then) ? And more > importantly what impact is there from what I lose? And can I just buy > the stuff separately later on? Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has it already. Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. And not just through some hack. Sony added a menu item "Install Other OS" to make it easy and flag their support for it. Plus it has standard USB ports, so getting a keyboard and mouse connected it easy. Though I must admit, I've had my PS3 for almost a year, and haven't got round to putting Linux on it yet. Has anyone on the list tried it? Thinking about it, I've got quite a few gadgets around the house that could at least theoretically run Linux - and some of them do ;) Best regards, Mark. From dom at latter.org Fri Oct 10 09:30:51 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:30:51 +0200 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while > simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out > that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 15 09:44:00 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:44:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <200810100930.52243.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F59F40.6040108@zen.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 15 October 2008 08:58:05 Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Bringing the thread slightly nearer to being ON-topic, while >> simultaneously in the direction of a console war, I'd like to point out >> that unlike the Microsoft 360, you can install Linux on the Sony PS3. > > http://www.free60.org/wiki/Main_Page I didn't know you could do that! Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) From wawrzek at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 11:58:45 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:58:45 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Dave Briggs wrote: > I've made a start: http://davedev.org/clug/ - using WordPress and > hacking a pre-existing theme. > What new about website? Do you need any help? Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081010/156de6ac/attachment-0001.htm From db at davepress.net Fri Oct 10 12:00:43 2008 From: db at davepress.net (Dave Briggs) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:00:43 +0100 Subject: website In-Reply-To: References: <126d63860809210757r650aa424m50695c573f485d4@mail.gmail.com> <7891dd830809210827q11b10981x7089d60eb48d2585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > What new about website? Do you need any help? Been a little tied up of late, but should have things finished off in the next couple of days. Help could come in the form of some new pictures to fill in some of the gaps, and maybe rewriting some of the text? Cheers -- Dave Briggs db at davepress.net | http://davepress.net | 07525 209589 (Mobile) From bnicolson at ippimail.com Fri Oct 10 16:05:19 2008 From: bnicolson at ippimail.com (bnicolson at ippimail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:05:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sound Converter Message-ID: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 LTS user.) -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From bnicolson at ippimail.com Fri Oct 10 16:22:16 2008 From: bnicolson at ippimail.com (bnicolson at ippimail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:22:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: Sound Converter In-Reply-To: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <56235.82.16.102.233.1223647519.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <53126.82.16.102.233.1223648536.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Ignore this. I've found Audacity and am happy now. I have sound! :?) Bev. > I've been trying to listen to some ogg files which I have converted > from wav to ogg using Sound Converter but absolutely every time (even when > I know there's something in it) it says there is no data. Is it doomed > not to work or is there a way round this? Help!? > Bev. (Ubuntu 8.04 > LTS user.) > > -- > Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! > 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 10 17:30:00 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:30:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48EF74F8.6000708@gasops.co.uk> * Gareth Pullen wrote: > This: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Comparison_of_features > is the best comparison of the versions and what's included that I've Thanks :-) From dom at latter.org Fri Oct 10 21:07:20 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:07:20 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Message-ID: <200810102107.20873.dom@latter.org> Let's try again, shall we... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: OT: Xbox 360 Date: Friday 10 October 2008 From: Dom Latter To: mark at taurine.org.uk On Wednesday 15 October 2008 09:44:00 Mark Roberts wrote: [Linux on xbox 360] > Violating DMCA and God knows what else, turning your console into a No UK or EU laws broken, AFAIK. The DMCA is Evil and Stupid and if it applied to me I would find a way of breaking it (well, the bits that try to control what you do with your own posessions in the privacy of your own home) on principle. > warez-capable machine (the bit where you firmware patch the DVD drive) > and exploiting a buffer overrun in a game is not quite the same as using > an option provided and stood-behind by the platform-owner. Indeed - are Sony going to recover some of the good-will they lost through the whole root-kit business? > But subverting a Microsoft platform to run Linux has a certain appeal :) Especially if MS are basically subsidising the hardware (which was the case with the original Xbox, AFAIK). ------------------------------------------------------- From clug at dziewulski.com Sat Oct 11 19:27:57 2008 From: clug at dziewulski.com (Jan M. Dziewulski) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:27:57 +0100 Subject: CB2... Message-ID: I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy coming down there? -- Janek From hjenkins at uvic.ca Sat Oct 11 21:43:07 2008 From: hjenkins at uvic.ca (hjenkins) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CB2... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30375.142.104.193.193.1223754187.squirrel@wm3.uvic.ca> I'll try and make it. > I'll be nipping down to CB2 tomorrow (1-2ish). Does anyone else fancy > coming > down there? > > -- > Janek > > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 14 17:11:54 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:11:54 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Basically you can add back in the most useful bits, such as the hard > disc, but it's normally more expensive than just buying the one that has > it already. Apparently the Arcade version won't play xbox games (though not sure how bad a crime this really is). Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual don't state the frequency. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 16 11:04:25 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:04:25 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] Message-ID: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are customers of virgin/nthell/teleworst. -------- Original Message -------- If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the naughty list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, give you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. Well worth having stored for emergencies: news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Oct 16 11:20:10 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Chris Lindley) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Thanks for that! Coincidentally I had to reboot my cable modem this morning. First time for ages. It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the responsiveness of SLRN. Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:04, Paul M wrote: > possibly useful advice for those, for better or worse, who are > customers > of virgin/nthell/teleworst. > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > If you're having serious connection speed issues, I suggest posting to > the Virgin Broadband support newsgroups (Yes! On a real NNTP server!). > It is staffed by tech support guys who appear to be actually genuinely > clueful. They will tell you whether you are being "STM'd" (which is > their phrase for the traffic shaping they apply when you exceed the > published limits) and at what time you will be taken off of the > naughty > list. And if you have a problem, they will submit a ticket for you, > give > you the ticket number and happily chase it up for you if necessary. > Well > worth having stored for emergencies: > > news://news.virginmedia.com:119/virginmedia.support.broadband.cable > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From onepoint at starurchin.org Thu Oct 16 11:54:31 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:54:31 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the > responsiveness of SLRN. How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's pretty up to date! http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 Jeremy Henty From ferg at scotgate.org Thu Oct 16 13:22:37 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:22:37 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> <20081016095431.GA2915@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <5304B580-4387-4714-AD6B-60AD2DCBAF27@scotgate.org> Excellent! Just installed SLRN and that brings back some memories. It's quick and easy to read. I may give returning to Pine a miss though! Cheers Ferg On Oct16,2008, at 10:54, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris Lindley wrote: > >> What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? One with the >> responsiveness of SLRN. > > How about SLRN? The latest release was late last month. That's > pretty up to date! > > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768&package_id=7908&release_id=629225 > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From paul at the-hug.org Thu Oct 16 17:08:48 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:08:48 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: virgin/ntl cable users who need tech support] In-Reply-To: <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> References: <48F70399.5090308@mansfield.co.uk> <6F1C42EC-D0B4-4504-B728-536445A8B4ED@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48F75900.7020408@the-hug.org> On 16/10/08 10:20, Chris Lindley wrote: > It's been a while since I've used newsgroups. I always used SLRN, > with Pan for binaries (ahem!) etc.. But I've no idea what's current > now. What's a good easy to use, up to date newsreader? At my desk I use Thunderbird for news and mail (oh, and RSS via feed2imap but you can use that with any mail client - and I do). -- Paul From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 18:04:46 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:04:46 +0100 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? Message-ID: Afternoon all, I've been looking for a little while for an email client which will store the emails locally, encrypted, preferably not using the swap space (although I've yet to see my Gentoo touch the swap space, even when compiling). I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, but it seems like a lot of hassle... So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? Incidentally, yes, I know GMail stores the mail unencrypted anyway, but that's not the point! Gareth. From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 16 22:19:40 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:19:40 +0200 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 16 October 2008 18:04:46 Gareth Pullen wrote: > I know I could simply use Thunderbird or the like and encrypt the > archive files, decrypting them each time I want to open Thunderbird, > but it seems like a lot of hassle... You will have to do *something* (like enter a password), won't you? > So, has anyone come across something which fits the bill ? How about: Create an encrypted filesystem: http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. Then make Thunderbird store its mail there. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Fri Oct 17 00:37:54 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:37:54 +0100 Subject: Encrypted mail client...? In-Reply-To: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> References: <200810162219.41031.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48F7C242.2080804@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > Create an encrypted filesystem: > http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/security/Cryptoloop-HOWTO/en/x176.html > > You can create the filesystem inside a file, rather than a partition. many linuxes allow you to create an encrypted file system during install phase (might be hidden in advanced disk options). suse's had it since, er 10.0, and I think umbongo^Wubuntu has had it for a while. one thing to bear in mind if DIY, to make sure if you enter the wrong passphrase/key that you don't blindly force mount + fsck - good idea to store a secure hash of the passphrase/key so you know if it's been entered wrongly! From clug at gasops.co.uk Mon Oct 20 16:08:09 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:08:09 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail Message-ID: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options do I have available to me? I want to basically have "fetchmail -d 60" running for multiple people (plus applicable .fetchmailrc files). One way of doing it is not to use the -d option at all and just have fetchmail scripts in people's home directory and call the script from cron. This is what I'm currently doing though it's not elegant. My main concern is not actually starting fetchmail running but how to make sure it is constantly running because in the past it's just stopped in the background and then I've had to su to a persons account to kill it and put it in the background again. From wawrzek at gmail.com Mon Oct 20 16:22:58 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:22:58 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: Hi, My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the computer home. I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to charity). Now problems: I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this week or Mon.,Tues. next one. I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good point. -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/ad3137c4/attachment-0002.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Mon Oct 20 17:14:01 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:14:01 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to time, so, instead.... I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy for a long time. From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Mon Oct 20 17:28:01 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:28:01 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one of the > computer home. > I just set up Ubuntu Server on a machine with that spec; it's working very nicely. > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a bike. > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > If I'm storing one, I'd be happy to install Ubuntu or Debian on it. > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might be a good > point. > People on Freecycle would snap these up in a day or less, but some of them would probably end up on eBay shortly afterwards (it's an easy profit, right?). It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . Further options include: - CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test server!). - Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . All best, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081020/d432dada/attachment-0003.htm From panupelkonen at luukku.com Mon Oct 20 17:38:37 2008 From: panupelkonen at luukku.com (Panu Pelkonen) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:38:37 +0300 (EEST) Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project Message-ID: <1224517117433.panupelkonen.48850.E9EVwMsyKRMjxQCk_4L5nQ@luukku.com> I don't live in Cambridge anymore, so I can't really take part in any way. But this type of free hardware would nice for getting one's feet wet in parallel computing - ie. taking a few similar computers and trying out a customised distro such as http://pareto.uab.es/mcreel/PelicanHPC/ or http://clusterknoppix.sw.be/about.htm It would be a nice school project, or even a LUG project.. Panu Wawrzyniec NiewodniczaDski kirjoitti 20.10.2008 kello 17:22: > Hi, > > My current employer has some (I think 5) old computers. The > computers might > be old but they are still useful: Pentium 4 around 2 GHz with 512 Mb of > Memory is still enough to run Linux - I know because I grabbed one > of the > computer home. > > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > Now problems: > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we > need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > I working in CCDC only few more days -> So it has to be done this > week or > Mon.,Tues. next one. > > I rather won't have time to put Linux on them -> So is there are any > volunteers? I guess it might be a great fun if we find proper location. > > I'm not sure who we can give them? -> I think somebody mentioned > people in > low-profit shop was interesting in Linux/Free Software so it might > be a good > point. > > > > > -- > Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN > Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com > PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name > MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl ................................................................... Luukku Plus paketilla p??set eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista. Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat el?m??si. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku From dom at latter.org Mon Oct 20 21:35:48 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:35:48 +0200 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: > If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users > but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > do I have available to me? What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. Anyway, you can set up users to have no shell access by changing /etc/passwd appropriately: http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.linux.security/2002-10/5876.html and subsequent posts. From wawrzek at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 00:18:40 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:18:40 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 04:28:01PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute. Computers are free (we might want to put some money to > charity). > > > I assume you mean that your employer would like a donation to charity to be > made before they will donate the machines to CamLUG? > It's not necessary. We can grab them for free. If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we give it for free we don't need to do this. [...] > > I'm not from Cambridge and I don't have a car for a moment. -> So we need > somebody with to pick up the computers and store it. > > > I would be willing to store one PC until a recipient is agreed. I live near the > botanic gardens. I'm afraid I can't help with transportation, as I only have a > bike. CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). [...] > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to the > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, etc. Not bad idea. > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) > Further options include: > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I would > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; I'd > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > server!). I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store others. And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea of creating some new content for new website. We should grab computers rather promptly and we can decided what to do with them. > ? Send the PCs to Computer Aid International . > I need to give this link to our sys admin. BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From tomharling at aol.com Tue Oct 21 01:16:41 2008 From: tomharling at aol.com (Tom Harling) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:16:41 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? http://folding.stanford.edu/ From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 21 10:57:42 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:57:42 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <200810202135.49164.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FD9986.3010102@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > On Monday 20 October 2008 16:08:09 Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options >> do I have available to me? > > What are you *actually* trying to do here? It may be that there is a more > appropriate tool / solution than using fetchmail. > I have a remote pop3 server. It doesn't have much disk space (1.6GB). Some people would like to have imap so they can access their box from more than one location, and some accounts need accessing from more than one location at the same time. I've setup an imap box on our lan and use fetchmail to deliver to procmail then I have a procmail recipe to deliver the mail as Maildir. It's also faster for people (or is that a false assumption?) as well as having plentiful HD capacity. My only gripe is that running fetchmail in deamon mode for each user that wants imap access is a little bit hacky since fetchmail never appears to be 100% reliable and sometimes you can find it just doing 'funny stuff' in the background (which then means you need to write a script to check it's running etc). So I've opted to just use a bash script which uses fetchmail (and creates a lock file) and run that from cron, giving a bit more reliability. Obviously I'm logging at various levels to be sure I don't lose mail :-) An alternative would've been to have exim deliver directly to Maildir remotely but since I only want Maildir for some accounts and mbox for others is this possible using exim? Also I could put a new harddisk in the remote box (and it does use LVM so shouldn't be too tricky other than a car journey) but on the LAN we have gigabit whereas we only have a 2M circuit for net access. Suggestions welcome :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Tue Oct 21 11:02:12 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:02:12 +0100 Subject: Multiple Fetchmail In-Reply-To: <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48FC90C9.40206@gasops.co.uk> <48FCA039.5000309@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FD9A94.8000905@gasops.co.uk> * Paul M wrote: > Longman wrote: >> If I want to have fetchmail running in daemon mode for multiple users >> but don't want those users to have shell access to the box what options > > I too found that fetchmail in daemon mode did odd things from time to > time, so, instead.... > > I have one .fetchmailrc in the home directory for user mail, and then > have a cronjob for that user; I redirect output to > /var/log/mail/fetchmail.out so I can see if it's failing. > > > I think I had to fix up some directory permissions but it's been happy > for a long time. > > I have a fetchmail script like this: if [ -f /tmp/.xyzfetchmail.lock ] ; then echo 'Script is still running' else echo 1 > /tmp/.zyzfetchmail.lock fetchmail -s --sslproto ssl123 rm -f /tmp/.xyz.fetchmail.lock fi Then execute it from cron. There is an appropriate .fetchmailrc file. This is done for each user (using different lock files). This gives 'fetchmail -d' behaviour. From dom at latter.org Tue Oct 21 11:27:16 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:27:16 +0200 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> Message-ID: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: > "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux and > redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding at home etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 11:50:44 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:50:44 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <48FD1159.5010309@aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Hi, There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get higher in the ranks: Check out this thread on the Folding forums: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1560 As somebody who really loves messing with homebuilt hardware (and once had their home workstation running on a RAID10 * 9 disc array for the laugh!) I can't say I really disapprove! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 10:27, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 01:16:41 Tom Harling wrote: >> "I would like to propose that CamLUG will take them, install Linux >> and >> redistribute." - could we install and run Folding at Home on them? > > If that were the *only* reason for having them switched on it would be > a very inefficient use of electricity; the whole point of Folding at home > etc is to use CPU that would otherwise go wasted. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From dom at latter.org Tue Oct 21 15:34:41 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:34:41 +0200 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > Hi, > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > higher in the ranks: Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 15:53:14 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:53:14 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Hi, >> >> There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole >> point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get >> higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From wawrzek at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 15:55:45 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Wawrzyniec_Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:55:45 +0100 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > > Hi, > > > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/efd36bc2/attachment-0003.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Tue Oct 21 16:25:53 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:25:53 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> Ferg wrote: > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per year on electricity! CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the rest of the chip being power hungry!). Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 of energy. * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Tue Oct 21 18:00:02 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:00:02 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/21 Paul M > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy consumption substantially. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/9ab68a3e/attachment-0003.htm From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Tue Oct 21 18:11:23 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:11:23 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Wawrzyniec, 2008/10/20 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski > If we get any money from them I think we should give some back, but if we > give it for free we don't need > to do this. Fair enough. > CCDC is close to botainic garden too (CB2 1EZ). > Okay, that's walking distance from me, even carrying a PC. > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > the > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > etc. > > Not bad idea. > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? Feedback, please! > > Alternatively, the PCs themselves could be donated. Several open source > > projects seek hardware donations: Linux VServer, for instance, and SPI . > > > SPI sounds good as CCDC use Debian on some machines. However, I would > prefer more local projects. Small install part might be a fun ;) I'm really short on time. I don't mind installing Debian/Ubuntu on a machine that's in my flat because I can get on with other things while it's running and I'm familiar with the install routines to won't have to spend time researching the install. I appreciate that it would be a nice social event to get a group of us together to install linuxes on these boxes, but I myself don't have time to do that. If anyone else can (and has space for it), then go for it. > > ? CamLUG list members may have projects they want to use the PCs for (I > would > > certainly find a use for one if you would be happy for me to take it; > I'd > > happily pay a taxi fare to collect it, too. I could do with a test > > server!). > > I think it fair suggestion. You can take one but you have take & store > others. > And you need to write a short report about it! Indeed It very nice idea > of creating some new content for new website. I live in a pretty small flat, and I'm afraid I don't really have room for more than one extra PC. I don't mind writing a few quick words about what I decide to do with it (even if it's just putting Ubuntu on it and selling it on eBay to raise funds for CLUG/FSF/etc. > We should grab computers rather promptly What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > and we can decided what to do > with them. I get the feeling that more people than just me and Wawrzyniec are going to need to be involved if we're going to be able to store enough of these to make a group decision worthwhile. > BTW. They (admins) might have some big CRTs. I probably won't have space to put one of those, unless it's *very* temporary. Even then, it would have to be just one. If I were to end up keeping the PC that goes to my flat (rather than selling it for charity as above, etc) I'd run it headless; if I were to sell it, I could sell it with a VDU. Sorry I can't do more, Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081021/3ea3b507/attachment-0003.htm From tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk Tue Oct 21 18:21:17 2008 From: tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:21:17 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: > > > It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the proceeds to > > the > > > Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public Interest, > > etc. > > > > Not bad idea. > > > > Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of the group? > Feedback, please! Sounds fine to me. From ferg at scotgate.org Tue Oct 21 18:27:10 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:10 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> <20081021162117.GA3077@weber> Message-ID: That sounds a plan to me. Cheers Ferg On Oct21,2008, at 17:21, Tom Ellis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: >>>> It might be better just to eBay them ourselves and donate the >>>> proceeds to >>> the >>>> Free Software Foundation Europe and/or Software In The Public >>>> Interest, >>> etc. >>> >>> Not bad idea. >>> >> >> Good, two of us agree this is reasonable. What about the rest of >> the group? >> Feedback, please! > > Sounds fine to me. > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From mark_w at techie.com Tue Oct 21 23:56:33 2008 From: mark_w at techie.com (Mark Wyatt) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:56:33 +0000 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - Message-ID: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > > There's a whole bunch of people for whom Folding at home IS the whole > > point. These people use it as a hobby and aim to make their team get > > higher in the ranks: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > Particularly on one those old Pentium D's which always were rather inefficient in power used per unit of computation. > Ferg wrote: > > Me neither. After sending that email I got immersed into that thread. > > There's quite a lot of talk of large electricity bills and upgrading > > from a consumer level supply towards the end of it. Ouch! > > On Oct21,2008, at 14:34, Dom Latter wrote: > > > >> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 11:50:44 Ferg wrote: > >> Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > >> I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > I've now got a UPS at home, for my home server, and it gives me a fairly > detailed power consumption measurement (using munin and the apccd to > give stats). For my electricity tariff*, 1W year costs 92p > > My home server used to be my desktop, it's an Athlon Barton XP2500+ > (1.8GHz?. barton = big cache variant) with 768MB DDRAM (3 x 256). > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > CPU consumption is probably about 40W at this speed. I did consider > switching to one of the atom motherboards, especially the dual core ones > that tranquilPC do, the power saving would be about 25W, about ?23 of > energy per year, so not really work the effort until the whole > motherboard can become a lot more efficient (Intel keep quiet about the > rest of the chip being power hungry!). > > Western Digital Green drives save about 5W per drive if you're lucky, I > have a mirrored pair, so I'd have to spend (say) ?100 to save about ?8 > of energy. > > > > * => 10.5p per kWH * 24 * 365 / 1000 > > ------------------------------ Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). If you've got enough ram, the disk drives often don't need to be active all that much in a low traffic application, so they can end up costing very little power. Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the next revision they do something more appropriate. In the meantime, in a similar role at home I have a Pentium 2140 which, in practice, draws 40 Watts from the wall and which has way more performance than an atom (or the application needs, to be frank). I'd have liked to have looked at the new Via nano stuff, but it wasn't available at the time. Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. -- See Exclusive Video: Hollywood Life's 5th Annual Style Awards http://www.hollywoodlife.net/Awards.aspx?AwardsID=style2008 From zen13321 at zen.co.uk Wed Oct 22 01:02:27 2008 From: zen13321 at zen.co.uk (Mark Roberts) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:02:27 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break > my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual > don't state the frequency. Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and white image instead of colour. I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. From wawrzek at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 01:22:18 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:22:18 +0100 Subject: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4126b3450810200828r413b84fbq9687b774826e95d@mail.gmail.com> <20081020221839.GA8260@gmail.com> <4126b3450810210911re48598am5d0df474b806ca4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021232211.GA7471@gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 05:11:23PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote: Hi Sam and others, > What about tomorrow afternoon around 5.45? I could pick one up then. > Sorry I cannot. I also would like to dispatch all machine at once. If we don't find plan to use them for 'greater good' I'll take one and pass to you. Generally I think we don't have enough time to organize install part etc. We can pass them to SPI or similar organization but it also can be done by CCDC, so I don't see the point to bother you (or anybody else). So question to all of you. Do you need such computer to anything related to FOSS? It don't have to be any big idea. I.e. I need such computer to test new distributions is very good reason ;) Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From wawrzek at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 01:25:13 2008 From: wawrzek at gmail.com (Wawrzyniec =?utf-8?Q?Niewodnicza=F1ski?=) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:25:13 +0100 Subject: Eco Music Player Message-ID: <20081021232511.GA7971@gmail.com> Hi, I think it's great idea and it support OGG! http://www.ethicalsuperstore.com/products/trevor-baylis-brands/eco-media-player-revolution/ Wawrzek -- Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski vel Wawrzek, Larry or LarryN Linux User #177124 E-MAIL: wawrzek at gmail.com PhD in Quantum Chemistry WWW: http://wawrzek.name MSc in Molecular Engineering JID: larryn at chrome.pl From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 09:56:02 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 08:56:02 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211127.16212.dom@latter.org> <6045D1D4-56B0-4C19-9796-FCE714C84F23@scotgate.org> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> <7ADF285F-F8F5-4369-BA0A-B7F8294686DF@scotgate.org> <48FDE671.1050204@mansfield.co.uk> <4126b3450810210859q8129552j2e390769301e9d4a@mail.gmail.com> <4126b3450810210900l336ff3f4o3f199a52f0a37fd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FEDC92.9040205@mansfield.co.uk> Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/21 Paul M > > > By underclocking I can reduce power consumption by 20 to 25 watts, I > don't even notice the performance drop, but I can enjoy saving ?180 per > year on electricity! > > > Depending upon what you are serving, and to whom, you may not need to > keep your server switched on all the time. If you only need on-demand > access, you could in some cases set up your server to wake on LAN and > keep it halted the rest of the time. This should reduce your energy > consumption substantially. good point, but I am also using it as a print server, mail server, http proxy cache (ginormous squid spool), general linux toolbox, web page testing, VPN termination, mp3 and media server (chipped xbox is client) and more besides... so, it'd spend about 20 hours awake anyway. Oh, and during one thing I've taken a look at and failed, perhaps I'd need a custom kernel, is getting power saving modes working - I can't get the clock speed to dynamically change. I think but without investigating further that the Athlon 32 doesn't offer much in this respect. My core1 Sony laptop will drop its CPU speed by half, and $JOB's core2duo laptop will switch each core separately to half speed too. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 10:01:31 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:01:31 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 10:15:09 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:15:09 +0100 Subject: power saving computing - was Re: OT Re: ComputerGiving - In-Reply-To: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20081021215633.6AFF31642C2@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <48FEE10D.6090102@mansfield.co.uk> Mark Wyatt wrote: > Don't look forward to that ?180 too much: 20 Watts * ?0.92 is more > like ?18.40 than ?180 (although you'll be lucky to be paying as little > as 10.5 p per kWH for an uncapped electricity contract, these days). d'oh, when I originally worked it out more roughly, I got the right answer, didn't have enough caffeine! I must have been thinking of the total power consumed by the system before I started underclocking! > Yes, the chipset for the Atom chip really is distinctly sub-optimal; it > is just an existing, fairly coarse geometry, chipset with no particular > pretensions at power saving; it would be nice to hope that for the > next revision they do something more appropriate. the "poulsbo" chipset is said to be much better, not entirely sure why it's not been widely adopted. perhaps because existing PC and laptop makers didn't want to produce a completely new system design? http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3276&p=16 > Note also that some UPSs tend to run a bit warm, which isn't exactly > helpful; I suspect that the energy efficiency figures don't look > particularly great at low loads, but it probably depends on UPS arch. I've an APC Smart-UPS SC1500, load is 18% (270VA), current measured externally is 1.5A (~350VA), so, I guess I am losing about 80VA. Not sure of the power factor, but worst case is I am losing 80W. Not so good :-( I get about one mains drop out a month typically averaging up to 20s, and it doesn't return cleanly which is the big problem, hence why I bought a UPS. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 12:57:29 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:57:29 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? Message-ID: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any clues about debugging iptables LOG output? If you want more details... My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's really simple and it's been configured that way for years. I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, links or wget. The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with the problem (but again I could be wrong). I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. Any ideas? TIA, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 13:02:44 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:02:44 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Jeremy Henty wrote: > Recently, whenever I try to access the Cambridge Arts Picturehouse at > > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > > the download grinds to a halt, the connection resets, and my firewall > log fills up with dropped packets. Has anyone else seen this? Any > clues about debugging iptables LOG output? > > If you want more details... > > My iptables INPUT chain accepts everything from RELATED and > ESTABLISHED connections and LOGs and DROPs everything else. It's > really simple and it's been configured that way for years. > > I see the same behaviour whether I access the URL with Firefox, Dillo, > links or wget. > > The URL used to work fine. I think the problems coincide with a > redesign of the site (but I could be wrong). > > I also recently moved to a fresh Linux From Scratch. I copied the > previous iptables configuration so I doubt it has anything to do with > the problem (but again I could be wrong). > > I'm not seeing these problems with any other URL or protocol. > > Any ideas? > > TIA, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > A wild stab in the dark here tho.... I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin defaulted to a value too high. The result would be that some websites would not load at all. Richard P From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 13:32:30 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:32:30 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > defaulted to a value too high. Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: =>ip iflist Interface GRP MTU ... 0 loop 1 1500 ... 1 eth0 2 1500 ... 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... and the OS itself: # ip link show 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? Regards, Jeremy Henty From ferg at scotgate.org Wed Oct 22 13:45:24 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:45:24 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time there! Cheers Ferg *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > > Regards, > > Jeremy Henty > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > From tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk Wed Oct 22 13:53:47 2008 From: tom-lists-clug at jaguarpaw.co.uk (Tom Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:53:47 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <20081022115347.GA4960@weber> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45:24PM +0100, Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* Why is lack of encryption a problem? Your bank account will use SSL. Tom From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Wed Oct 22 13:53:50 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:53:50 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/1132a543/attachment-0003.htm From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 13:56:11 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:56:11 +0200 Subject: OT Re: ComputerGiving - CamLUG project In-Reply-To: References: <200810201818.56648fd03ce1f2@rly-df07.mx.aol.com> <200810211534.41430.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221356.11972.dom@latter.org> On Tuesday 21 October 2008 15:55:45 Wawrzyniec Niewodnicza?ski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Dom Latter wrote: > > Even if they've got the money to spend on the electricity I cannot say > > I really approve of using energy so inefficiently! > > But not worst than watching TV or playing [computers|video] games ;) People tend to only watch one TV for a few hours at a time, not two or more 24/7! My point (if I need to make it clear) being that using old Pentiums purely for distributed scientific computation is a very poor use of energy when a collection of modern chips in a cluster or super computer would do much more per kWh. (At least at first glance; what happens when you factor in the cost of manufacture, I don't know). From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 14:01:55 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:01:55 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <200810221401.55907.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 13:45:24 Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! Ah, but the Kingston has good real ale, and a couple of free-to-use computers so you don't even have to take your own. From ferg at scotgate.org Wed Oct 22 14:17:19 2008 From: ferg at scotgate.org (Ferg) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:17:19 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Ok I stand corrected! Cheers Ferg On Oct22,2008, at 12:53, Sam Kuper wrote: > 2008/10/22 Ferg > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* > [snip] > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the > lack of WiFi encryption is less problematic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/8f4922ff/attachment-0003.htm From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 14:22:47 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:22:47 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can can experiment and go wild without boundaries. I dont mean wifi as-in 'Free Internet' .. I mean it as 'Free Network' Richard P Ferg wrote: > The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* or > annoying login pages. Plus their crepes are so yummy, that there > cannot be a finer place to go spend some quality mobile computing time > there! > > Cheers > Ferg > > *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. > Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. > > On Oct22,2008, at 12:32, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: >> >>> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >>> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >>> defaulted to a value too high. >> >> Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: >> >> =>ip iflist >> Interface GRP MTU ... >> 0 loop 1 1500 ... >> 1 eth0 2 1500 ... >> 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... >> >> and the OS itself: >> >> # ip link show >> 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... >> 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... >> 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... >> 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... >> >> An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeremy Henty >> _______________________________________________ >> CLUG mailing list >> clug at cambridge-lug.org >> Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 15:13:30 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:13:30 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for > Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can > can experiment and go wild without boundaries. Have a look at this: http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ From clug at minimal.cx Wed Oct 22 15:16:01 2008 From: clug at minimal.cx (Ian Spray) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:16:01 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:32:30PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > > > I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my > > Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin > > defaulted to a value too high. > > Good idea, but it doesn't look like it. On my Speedtouch modem: > > =>ip iflist > Interface GRP MTU ... > 0 loop 1 1500 ... > 1 eth0 2 1500 ... > 2 PPPoA_1 0 1456 ... > No, I think that supports the theory - you are trying to talk on your LAN with 1500 byte packets, but anything leaving your router for the rest of the world via PPPoA maxes out at 1456, and so will fragment on anythign larger. > and the OS itself: > > # ip link show > 1: lo: mtu 16436 ... > 2: eth0: mtu 1500 ... > 3: dummy0: mtu 1500 ... > 4: sit0: mtu 1480 ... > > An MTU of 1500 is standard, isn't it? > For Ethernet, yes, but ADSL isn't Ethernet (and VPN's also fall into the 'not-Ethernet' category as the encryption headers use up packet space before you get to the payload). Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see if the problems go away. HTH, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 15:37:48 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:37:48 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > if the problems go away. That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before iptables applies the rules? Regards, Jeremy Henty From tuxbox.guru at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 15:46:22 2008 From: tuxbox.guru at gmail.com (Richard) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:46:22 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: > >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. >> > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > CLUG mailing list > clug at cambridge-lug.org > Website: http://www.cambridge-lug.org > Thanks Dom, The point that scared me was ---- SNIP ---- Get Matrix Broadband Find it on the Matrix The broadband service that you can use throughout the City. Get an ADSL account with the Matrix and we provide high quality broadband that is at the very cutting edge of new technology. You can use your account anywhere there is coverage, and there is no extra cost for roaming around town.' -- END SNIP -- but there is the 'Free' part of it.... so I'll let that slide. The main idea is that the network is not controlled by any single entity, secondly that all systems are community based. For example a Community in Cambourne (of lets say 10 people) do a long distance link to next community.. in the end there is a mess of star topology networks spreading everywhere. Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Richard P From clug at minimal.cx Wed Oct 22 15:46:45 2008 From: clug at minimal.cx (Ian Spray) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:46:45 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' (I'm > > not on a Linux box right now so can't be sure of the syntax) and see > > if the problems go away. > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > Oh. Pooh :( > Incidentally I don't see how fragmentation could affect the firewall's > behaviour, doesn't connection tracking reassemble the packets before > iptables applies the rules? > Possibly - it depends on the firewall. I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this automatically ? It's always confused the pants off me (iptables, that is) so I've tended to stick with ipf/ipfilter. Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). I must admit that I've not really got any other ideas - telling you it appears fine on other systems isn't going to be a) news to you or b) all that helpful... Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) load that page ok for you ? I must admit that's all I've tried that URL with at the moment - no other reason to try other than reducing the amount of data that the site needs to serve to you in a rather "might help/can't hurt" sort of suggestion rather than anything concrete. TTFN, -- Ian Spray GPG Fingerprint: D170 35A3 C858 6E85 9B5B 1557 4CD5 6F6F E176 2D0A From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 15:49:18 2008 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:49:18 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > >> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection still > chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the discovery and it all goes downhill after that. You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc which might do the trick. Full gory details can be had at: http://www.netheaven.com/pmtu.html ...amongst other places. Simon. From sam.kuper at uclmail.net Wed Oct 22 15:57:01 2008 From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:57:01 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4126b3450810220657u357158a4kde6e076daab73e50@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Richard > Its easy to do a 20KM linkup using really inexpensive hardware. (I have > done this on 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz ISM hardware) using miniPCI cards with > Atheros chips. And sticking to the 100mW limits. > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN grown > up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and how to > connect using standard commodity hardware. Please keep us (the list) posted. spk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081022/eec410f6/attachment-0003.htm From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 15:59:03 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:59:03 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022134645.GD11571@minimal.cx> Message-ID: <20081022135903.GO2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:46:45PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:37:48PM +0100, Jeremy Henty wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: > > > > > Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' > > > > That was easily done but it's made no difference: > > Pooh :( I just whacked it down to 600 and there is still no difference. > I know that on IPFilter the phrase 'keep frags' is important to > ensure the stateful rules work as desired. Does iptables do this > automatically ? That's my impression, but I've not researched iptables much beyond how to let out the protocols I want. The commands that allow incoming packets only when they are related to established connections have always just worked for me (and they would be stateful, right?). > Thinking a little harder, it would also be of less importance that > you drop your MTU as the frags are probably due to the stuff being > sent to you from your initial problem report, and so that would be > down to the PPPoA gear at the other end of your link (ie: BT). Yes, I need to get inside the Speedtouch and see exactly what it is getting. > Just out of interest, do text browsers (links/lynx/wget et. al.) > load that page ok for you ? No, wget and links behave just the same. Regards, Jeremy Henty From simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 16:01:18 2008 From: simon.andrews at bbsrc.ac.uk (Simon Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:01:18 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:49, Simon Andrews wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2008, at 14:37, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 02:16:01PM +0100, Ian Spray wrote: >> >>> Just try the 'ip link' equivalent of 'ifconfig eth0 mtu 1400' >> >> That was easily done but it's made no difference: the connection >> still >> chokes and dies, and the firewall logs loads of dropped packets. :-( > > From what I remember of this it isn't the MTU size which is a > problem, more that modern linux network stacks use Path MTU > Discovery (PMD) to try to negotiate a per-connection MTU setting to > avoid fragmentation. Some routers mangle the packets which do the > discovery and it all goes downhill after that. > > You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: > > echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). A better fix would be to allow those packets through so you can do the MTU negotiation. PMD is a desirable thing and your connection won't be as efficient if you just disable it. However if it's not your firewall which is blocking these packets you're stuffed and you'd just have to disable PMD. Simon. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 16:25:47 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:25:47 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022131601.GC11571@minimal.cx> <20081022133748.GN2994@omphalos.singularity> <573DDAA2-F23D-4BAB-BE1F-FC32BA943D4D@bbsrc.ac.uk> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 03:01:18PM +0100, Simon Andrews wrote: >> You can disable Path MTU discovery in linux using: >> >> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc Still no difference. > Thinking some more about this it's also possible that your firewall > is blocking the ICMP Frag Needed packets which are being sent back > to you (hence the dropped packets in your logs). All the dropped packet log entries have "PROTO=TCP", so they are not ICMP, right? My /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/* also reject source-routed packets and do not accept or send ICMP Redirects. Regards, Jeremy Henty From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:01:06 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:01:06 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF2EAE.6080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810221701.06536.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 15:46:22 Richard wrote: > I really do like the mesh thing tho.. but I am looking at a real MAN > grown up network. I am going to ask Matrix more about thier network and > how to connect using standard commodity hardware. Say "hi" from me. From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:03:10 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:03:10 +0200 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <38469BEB-B95B-44DE-AC56-157F80AFDFCD@bbsrc.ac.uk> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb --16:52:07-- http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... And still waiting. From dom at latter.org Wed Oct 22 17:23:26 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:23:26 +0200 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > wget http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > --16:52:07-- > http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb > => `cinema_home_date.aspx?venueId=camb' > Resolving www.picturehouses.co.uk... 87.252.62.212 > Connecting to www.picturehouses.co.uk|87.252.62.212|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... > > And still waiting. After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through just fine. From clug at gasops.co.uk Wed Oct 22 17:34:12 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:34:12 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> * Mark Roberts wrote: > Longman wrote: >> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >> don't state the frequency. > > Very likely it does support it. You won't damage it if it doesn't > support it. In that unlikely event, you'd most likely get a black and > white image instead of colour. > > I'm an import gamer, I always buy US region NTSC consoles, and run them > on UK TVs, and have never had a problem. I have an older, lower spec > Sony telly that copes fine with PAL60. It seems to work OK. No black and white. The manual states the TV supports NTSC which seems to be v. similar to PAL60 (though not quite) according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are that bad! So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. From onepoint at starurchin.org Wed Oct 22 18:06:45 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:06:45 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <20081022142547.GP2994@omphalos.singularity> <200810221703.10100.dom@latter.org> <200810221723.26647.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <20081022160645.GS2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 05:23:26PM +0200, Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 17:03:10 Dom Latter wrote: > > Might not be your firewall at all, Jeremy: > > > After about 12 minutes it came through. And now it's coming through > just fine. I'm still getting next to nothing, followed by resets. Jeremy Henty From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:23:17 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:23:17 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like > Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to > tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are > that bad! > > So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty with a super-expensive fault! From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:27:27 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:27:27 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Jeremy Henty wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:02:44PM +0100, Richard wrote: > >> I have had a similar problem when the MTU was set incorrectly on my >> Internet port (using PPPoA modem on a linux firewall). it was begin >> defaulted to a value too high. I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, and everybody got all the network traffic. It would work for only very short periods. I did manage to log in at one point to the access point as it had a default password, but was so flakey I couldn't get far enough to fix it, and friends told me to stop being a geek and put the laptop away :-) are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended up with your mac address? From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:30:28 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:30:28 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FEDDDB.1030704@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <48FF9B74.1050403@mansfield.co.uk> Paul wrote: > Mark Roberts wrote: >> Longman wrote: >>> Anyone know whether my sony wega kv28fx supports pal 60? Will I break >>> my TV by using this setting when it is pal 50? The specs in the manual >>> don't state the frequency. > > oops, sent from wrong email address.. retrying... am late to this thread, sorry. I have xbox-1 and I have sony CRT kv32fx and it does PAL-60 very nicely, no problems - using the RGB cable. however, my Sony is a multi-standard one, does various versions of PAL, as well as secam and ntsc. From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Wed Oct 22 23:41:24 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:41:24 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Dom Latter wrote: > On Wednesday 22 October 2008 14:22:47 Richard wrote: >> Why not all the Camlug chaps get together set up a Free wifi network for >> Cambridge(shire) A mesh type network where like minded individuals can >> can experiment and go wild without boundaries. > > Have a look at this: > http://www.cambridgematrix.co.uk/ anyone remember "invisible networks", who failed when ADSL came to the villages? ok, commercial, but a mesh of wifi. how about fon? there's some people providing that? maybe wimax will come soon? ok, maybe not! wife had an invite for minor event at Hotel Du Vin, went today to have a look, and they have quite good free wifi (just accept the T's and C's on their captive portal). Probably reachable from nearby locations as there was a good signal in their basement bar! a place next to Nandos at cattle market, forget the name, have free wifi - proudly announced on their door. From onepoint at starurchin.org Thu Oct 23 00:51:39 2008 From: onepoint at starurchin.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:51:39 +0100 Subject: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9ABF.8070601@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <20081022225139.GU2994@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:27:27PM +0100, Paul wrote: > I had a similar experience in La Raza some time ago. they'd managed > to set their wifi access point to some weird mode, perhaps a bridge, > and everybody got all the network traffic. Hmm, would that explain why just one website fails to download? > are the errors and drops addressed to different IPs that somehow ended > up with your mac address? They all have the right destination IP when they get to the PC. I don't what that says about what's arriving at the Speedtouch. Regards, Jeremy Henty From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 23 10:53:07 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:53:07 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> according to some forums I read. Biggest problem is that in games like >> Halo 3 the font is so small for things like remaining ammo it's hard to >> tell how much ammo I have left and the aliens get me; yes things are >> that bad! >> >> So think I need to get an HD TV. Trip to Richer Sounds might be in order. > > I've considered renting a TV for the first time in my life in order to > escape the fear of buying something that will be obsolete in months, > have some strange compatibility problem, or die just outside warranty > with a super-expensive fault! Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). From paul at the-hug.org Thu Oct 23 11:00:06 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:00:06 +0100 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <48FF1B17.7070907@gmail.com> <200810221513.30721.dom@latter.org> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> On 22/10/08 22:41, Paul wrote: > how about fon? there's some people providing that? Yup, we're a FON wireless access point (CB24 6AB). Never been used by the public yet mind you. BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone updated recently - see http://cam.misc.org.uk/wifi and feel free to add any more if anyone knows any. -- Paul From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 23 11:50:18 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:50:18 +0200 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge In-Reply-To: <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF9E04.6040208@mansfield.co.uk> <49003D16.6070004@the-hug.org> Message-ID: <200810231150.19072.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 11:00:06 Paul Oldham wrote: > BTW there's a list of public WAPs on the cam.* FAQ Wiki which someone > updated recently Does anybody know if any of those listed are *not* currently up and running? E.g. the Elm Tree used to but has since changed hands. It'd be a good idea to have "current as of " on entries. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 23 18:01:08 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:01:08 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > Not a bad idea.... only problem with that is that I don't have a TV > licence (since I don't watch TV and until just the other week when > Sainsbury's were doing there offer I didn't even own a console) and it > took me nearly a year to get the licensing people off my back; don't > want to have to go through that all again (being treated like a criminal). no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that would pose a problem for us too! if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to avoid TV Licensing. From clug at gasops.co.uk Thu Oct 23 18:13:00 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:13:00 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > would pose a problem for us too! > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > avoid TV Licensing. I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame you have to do this really. From paul at mansfield.co.uk Thu Oct 23 19:06:11 2008 From: paul at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:06:11 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Longman wrote: > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens as the "home address". http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html From dom at latter.org Thu Oct 23 22:33:28 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:33:28 +0200 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> Message-ID: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> On Thursday 23 October 2008 18:13:00 Longman wrote: > * Paul wrote: > > no, we don't have a licence (and don't watch broadcast TV), so that > > would pose a problem for us too! > > if I bought a TV, I'd get a friend to buy it and pay them the cash to > > avoid TV Licensing. > > I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV > in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I > need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame > you have to do this really. Having googled such exciting search strings as "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" and "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort of offence. I dunno, IANAL. From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 24 10:40:51 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:40:51 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <200810232233.28882.dom@latter.org> Message-ID: <49018A13.20903@gasops.co.uk> * Dom Latter wrote: > Having googled such exciting search strings as > "Section 6 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967" > and > "Section 367 of the Communications Act 2003" > there is definitely a legal requirement for retailers to provide a name > and address and so (presumably) giving a false one would be some sort > of offence. I dunno, IANAL. OK so I find a mate that watches TV (and I'm not sure I know any!) and get them to buy it for me giving their real name and address. Thanks for the heads up on that one :-) From clug at gasops.co.uk Fri Oct 24 11:23:09 2008 From: clug at gasops.co.uk (Longman) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:23:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <490193FD.3060407@gasops.co.uk> * Paul wrote: > Longman wrote: >> I was thinking of doing something similar, only I was going to buy a TV >> in cash and give a false name and address. The receipt should be all I >> need for the guarantee should it need repairing under warranty? Shame >> you have to do this really. > > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html Nice! :-) From ktabic at ktabic.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:17:51 2008 From: ktabic at ktabic.co.uk (ktabic) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:17:51 -0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Xbox 360 In-Reply-To: <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> References: <48EDCCE3.6010908@gasops.co.uk> <48F5947D.7070600@zen.co.uk> <48F4B6BA.4030102@gasops.co.uk> <48FE5F83.1070108@zen.co.uk> <48FF47F4.6070606@gasops.co.uk> <48FF99C5.4070600@mansfield.co.uk> <49003B73.6090807@gasops.co.uk> <49009FC4.3080204@mansfield.co.uk> <4900A28C.1050904@gasops.co.uk> <4900AF03.2000009@mansfield.co.uk> Message-ID: <25842.194.176.105.1.1224847071.squirrel@home.ktabic.co.uk> > I believe the standard way of baiting TVL is to use 23 Leinster Gardens > as the "home address". > > http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html An even better one is 100 Temple Street, Bristol, BS1 6AB. That shows up as TV Licensing's address :). From drewfitzsimmons at gmail.com Sat Oct 25 15:47:37 2008 From: drewfitzsimmons at gmail.com (Drew Fitzsimmons) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:47:37 +0100 Subject: samba via nfs = bad Message-ID: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used by all the other systems. All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data went away... I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it has been decided that the system should be a little more robust (always the way) Anyway it turns out the company do sell a dedicated server with redundancy but it costs about ?100k which is rather a large amount of money. The plan now is to implement something our in house. After about 10 mins of poking about on the system I showed my boss how it is possible to mount a share on an existing windows server. Then make the directory which the software expects to see a symbolic link to this smb mount allowing the data to be stored on an existing server (which has RAID etc.) The problem is that the other machines that mount this directory as an nfs share aren't able to see the samba share via the nfs mount (hope that makes sense) Obviously this is not the best way to do things but why can't they see the data in the smb share? is it because it's symbolic link or is it because it's going through an nfs share to get to a smb share? Has anyone got any suggestions as to what is the best way? The things I've thought of so far are: Mount the same samba share on all the 7 fedora machines. This might well be the simplest way. Set up a dedicated Linux server and change the nfs mounts to point to a directory on this machine. Also if they were to set up a dedicated server what sort of spec machine do think would be needed RAID type disk type etc. (I know this is dependent on amount of data and reads and writes etc) -- Drew Fitzsimmons From dom at latter.org Sat Oct 25 19:50:17 2008 From: dom at latter.org (Dom Latter) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:50:17 +0200 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200810251950.17207.dom@latter.org> On Saturday 25 October 2008 15:47:37 Drew Fitzsimmons wrote: > The things I've thought of so far are: For a "dedicated server" you could try a NAS box such as the Netgear ReadyNAS items. These are set up to do NFS out of the box, and also mirroring Raid if you slap another disk in. They run Linux so it's familir territory, but are already set up with what you need and have a point-and-drool web interface for configuration. http://brneurosci.org/readynas.html From paul at the-hug.org Sun Oct 26 00:01:45 2008 From: paul at the-hug.org (Paul Oldham) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:01:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> On Sat, October 25, 2008 14:47, Drew Fitzsimmons said: > At work we have got some linux machines which run a proprietary > software product. The vendor supplied the whole system on fedora core > 2 boxes and the set up runs something like this: > One of the boxes acts a s a server and contains the data which is used > by all the other systems. > All the other 6 boxes connect to a single nfs share on that machine. > > Recently there was a disk failure on the server box and all the data > went away... > > I haven't had much to do with the systems but it turns out that the > server runs a single 10k rpm disk, no RAID no redundancy at all. This > is clearly a very bad idea and now that one failure has happened it > has been decided that the system should be a little more robust > (always the way) [...] Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough to do. -- Paul From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 26 00:21:53 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:21:53 +0100 Subject: samba via nfs = bad In-Reply-To: <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> References: <126d63860810250647p5c38bf72kc700e03ba1f34982@mail.gmail.com> <27936.192.168.2.100.1224972105.squirrel@home.the-hug.net> Message-ID: <49039C01.5040703@mansfield.co.uk> Paul Oldham wrote: > Why not just slap a second disk drive of the same spec as the original in > the server box (assuming there's a spare slot) and then configure the > drives as a software RAID 1 pair? Minimal hardware cost and simple enough > to do. agreed, definitely the cheapest and quickest option. possibly better thing, a hardware raid card installation, two new drives to create a mirror, and copying files over would be the next best thing. BTW, in recent benchmarking, we found the Dell perc6 raid cards in raid5 gave massively higher performance than a cheap server with native sata - about four-fold improvement, using bonnie++ for testing, for reading and random I/O, and higher but not massively write speeds. oh, and of course, to take regular backups :-) and test them! From alastair at altrux.me.uk Sun Oct 26 11:13:34 2008 From: alastair at altrux.me.uk (Alastair Stevens) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:13:34 +0000 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> Message-ID: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/22 Ferg > Ok I stand corrected! > Cheers > Ferg > > 2008/10/22 Ferg > >> The Picturehouse bar has free and fast wifi without any encryption* [snip] >> *something to bear in mind if you plan to check your bank account. >> Although I guess any public wifi spot is a potential danger. >> > > That sort of thing should be done over SSL anyhow, in which case the lack > of WiFi encryption is less problematic. > > Don't worry - I had to explain the same thing to my folks last year, when they freaked at the thought of doing online banking over an open wifi. So although folks don't always appreciate a detailed explanation of the 5-layer TCP/IP network model over breakfast, at least they have an inherent understanding that encryption is a *good thing*. If only the MOD/Government/NHS/etc etc would get this :-) AL -- ======================================== ALASTAIR STEVENS * Web - www.altrux.me.uk * Blog - www.altrux.me.uk/blog.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081026/acbfb217/attachment-0002.htm From paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk Sun Oct 26 22:39:24 2008 From: paul-clug at mansfield.co.uk (Paul M) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:24 +0000 Subject: OT best free wifi in Cambridge Re: Q: Why does my firewall hate the cambridge picturehouse? In-Reply-To: <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081022105729.GL2994@omphalos.singularity> <48FF0854.6050000@gmail.com> <20081022113230.GM2994@omphalos.singularity> <0AE4ACE7-6BBC-4CAB-8602-5738FA6C8AE4@scotgate.org> <4126b3450810220453pcb15827n12a4ee64f6962400@mail.gmail.com> <1B8BF75F-0C03-4819-9327-4E7D1AFA9199@scotgate.org> <4536e91b0810260313t1420296eo904f7120232116e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4904E38C.40405@mansfield.co.uk> the biggest problems to my mind of open wifi are 1/ other users on the access point can probe your machine, e.g. if you set a windows firewall up wrongly it may consider the "lan" as trusted, even when it considers what's beyond the gateway as untrusted 2/ cookie sniffing allowing people to steal your login on many sites; at least google make it easy to switch over to using https for the entire email session and not just logging in. SSL can pose quite a burden on a web server so I understand why this is done. Before I use a wifi hotspot I always clear my cookies just in case, and ensure any thing on my machine which does automatic logins are disabled (skype, messengers, voip, etc). If I used wifi hotspots more than once in a blue moon, I'd create a separate login which was deliberately bare. From will.pink at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 11:30:24 2008 From: will.pink at gmail.com (william pink) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:30:24 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] [CLUG] Message-ID: <7891dd830810270330w7fcad196j6db4194adbfe35ca@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dan Kolb Date: Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:24 AM Subject: [Gllug] [FW: UKUUG Linux 2008 Conference: Manchester, November 8-9] To: gllug at gllug.org.uk ----- Forwarded message from Alasdair G Kergon ----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UKUUG Linux Conference 2008 - Manchester Saturday 8th - Sunday 9th November http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This year's event consists of a twin-track conference over the weekend, preceded by a full-day Python Web Workshop on Friday 7th November. This year, we're offering a discounted conference rate of just 60 pounds for members of UK Linux User Groups provided you book by next Wednesday (29th October). The student rate is 20 pounds. (Separate fees apply for Friday's Python Web Workshop.) Please use the following URL to book online at this discounted rate or contact UKUUG during office hours on 01763 273 475 or office at ukuug.org. http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/bookinglug/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Accessibility and Advocacy * Continuity in development using external developers - John I Davies - iT4C * Marketing Open Source Software - Sandro Groganz - InitMarketing * Desktop Adapted for Dad - Adam Trickett Applications * Home Automation - Steven Goodwin * Ingres CAFE - John Smedley - Ingres Grids and Clusters * Distributed evolutionary algorithms with the Geneva library * Grid and Clouds in the LHC era - Dr. Ruediger Berlich - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * GridSolve: A nice tool for distributed computing - Marcus Hardt - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology * Cross-Platform Virtual Machines - Paul Knowles - Transitive Kernel * Infrastructure for PCIe endpoint devices * Porting Linux to a new architecture - the right way - Arnd Bergmann - IBM Deutschland Research & Development * Run time power management - it's not just suspend and resume - Matthew Garrett - Red Hat * Supersweet 15 - tales of a filesystems in puberty - Christoph Hellwig - LST e.V. * A Whole Family of Penguins - Kyle McMartin - Red Hat Sysadmin * Organising sysadmin documentation - Jon Dowland - Newcastle University * Python and System Administration - John Pinner - Linux Emporium Web * An introduction to web application security flaws - Jake Edge - LWN.net * Lead into Gold: Catalyst refactoring, optimisation and testing - Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems Limited * Coding in Pyjamas: Apps for Desktop and the Web * FULL-DAY FRIDAY Pure Python Web Workshop: Pyjamas + JSONRPC + Django - Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Subject to change - check http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2008/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Event sponsored by: Novell Sun IBM Google Transitive InitMarketing | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Gllug mailing list - Gllug at gllug.org.uk http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infowares.com/archive/clug/attachments/20081027/e3c773f5/attachment-0002.htm From gareth.pullen at gmail.com Tue Oct 28 15:50:49 2008 From: gareth.pullen at gmail.com (Gareth Pullen) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:50:49 +0000 Subject: Free CrossOver downloads... Message-ID: For anyone who hasn't seen the news, CrossOver are offering a free full download of their software (CrossOver Office and Games for Mac and Linux) for today (registration is open for today only, downloads are open for a few days, due to their servers dying under the load). Link: http://down.codeweavers.com/ Gareth